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Atlas Sports Model (2016)

Discussion in 'Other Norton Motorcycles' started by texasSlick, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    I have never heard of an Atlas "Sports" model, also called an Atlas S. However, I note such is listed in the Amal carb guides, example http://porklips.org/~mason/moto/amal_specs.html

    Anyone know how an Atlas Sports Model differs from a plain vanilla Atlas?

    Slick
     
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  2. lcrken

    lcrken VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    There was an Atlas 750 Sorts Scrambler model, that came with straight pipes, different tank and seat, different bars, off-road tires, etc. Typical period scrambler style bike. That might be what you are referring to.

    Ken
     
  3. lcrken

    lcrken VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
  4. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Back when men were men, and bikes were heavy !
    And dirt bikes didn't have much of an air cleaner.

    Watching footage of the gang motoring through Sth America in the curent Paris-Dakar,
    and floating off the sand dunes and through the 'camel grass',
    you realise bikes and suspension have come a long way...

    Wonder how many Atlas Scramblers they actually sold ?
    I was always impressed with the pics of them in the 3rd party workshop manual....
     
  5. xbacksideslider

    xbacksideslider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Cool, thanks for the pics Ken
     
  6. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

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    Jan 2, 2013
    Yes, Ken, I am familiar with this Model. As you say it was a typical period scrambler, and had a Matchless frame. In the 60's it was usually called "Sports Scrambler" , SS, or simply "750 Scrambler". Some folks even referred to it as "street scrambler".

    Getting back to the Atlas, I never heard, or was aware, of the designation Atlas S or Atlas Sports. From the Amal carb application guide, I see the Sport used a 420 main jet while my Atlas Owners Manual states a 350 main jet was the standard jet size for the Atlas. This suggests the Sport was a performance variant, but I was hoping someone could shed more light on the subject.

    I also note in the carb guide, that the "Sport Scrambler" is not listed. So it may be a simple space saving contraction to "Sport" and the Atlas Sport and Sport Scrambler are one and the same.

    Slick
     
  7. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    The Atlas Sports gets a mention in this one.

    [​IMG]

    Open pipes and no mufflers on the Atlas Scrambler would need to be jetted up, or the valves would burn....
     
  8. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011

    I’m not too impressed under the politically incorrect statement of;
    FRAME
    Brazed and ……………………….
     
  9. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Thanks, Rohan. Your period ad is as I remember it .... the Scrambler was simply called "750 Scrambler" which is how it is referred in my Norton Owners Manual.

    My Atlas, titled 63, actually dispatched from the factory in May 62, looks like the bike in the lower part of the ad.
    Now the mystery deepens ..... my curiosity piqued by the Amal carb guide, I pulled out my main jet holder and to my surprise found a 420 main jet. More mystery .... the carbs themselves have no numbers stamped on the mounting flange as all Amals are supposed to have. Since I am the original owner, I can attest these are as fitted by the factory. BTW, the orifice in the needle seat on my left carb is 0.200 inch Dia, while my owners manual states 0.125 is the standard. ???

    So .... perhaps (perhaps is a hedging word) Atlas and Atlas Sport ARE two variants of the same model. I am still curious.

    Slick
     
  10. lcrken

    lcrken VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Just an observation about model names here. The Atlas Sports Scrambler was an Atlas engine in Matchless/AJS frame, but was still originally ('63 and '64) referred to by the factory and advertised as an Atlas model, so it is still correct to call it an Atlas. In various publications it's been called the 750 Scrambler, Atlas Scrambler, and Atlas Sports Scrambler, but it's all the same bike. Some folks claim it isn't a real Atlas because it doesn't have the featherbed frame, but it's still officially an Atlas model. With some small changes in '65 and later it became the Matchless G15 and AJS model 33, and eventually the Norton N15 and P11 models.

    I still haven't found any reference to a featherbed framed Atlas called a Sport or Sports model, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. If there was, hopefully someone can turn up some info.

    The ad Rohan posted describes the 750 Atlas as a Road/Sports model, but I think that's more of a description of use than an official model designation.

    Ken
     
  11. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    What, the ad I showed calls it the Atlas 750cc ohv Scrambler. !

    There are plenty of stuff and ads with the words Atlas Scrambler

    [​IMG]

    although this is only hedging around the subject to hand.
    Momobloc jetting always seems to be a can of worms...
     
  12. BillT

    BillT

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    The Atlas used the featherbed frame, and was built from '62-'68 - somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 built

    The Atlas Scrambler used the Atlas motor in a Matchless G12-G15 frame with Norton wheels and Roadholder forks. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 were built from late 1963 to early 1968 (with 5 'specials' built in '69). First batch of 300 or so were stamped G15CS/10xxxx 'N'

    This same configuration was also sold as the Matchless G15CS, built at the same time, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 built.

    Change the tank, seat, fenders and few other bolt-on bits, you've got the G15MkII or AJS 33
    Change the seat and other bits again, put on a set of rearsets, and reverse the shifter cam to flip the change lever rearward, you've got the AJS 33CSR, G15CSR, and the Atlas 750SS ('66-'68 for the Atlas 750SS - essentially re-badged AJS). A total of somewhere around 1500 of these other variants were built, with a grand total of about 5000 Atlas motors in G15 frames.

    The P11 series was another hybrid, this time using the Matchless G85 chassis. Around 130 G85's were built, using the Matchless G80-500cc high-compression engine. It was pretty successful as a factory bike in '63-'65. When the bike was finally offered for sale to the public in 1966, it was obsolete, so the West coast distributor for Norton-Matchless suggested putting the Atlas motor in this frame, as was done with the G15/N15. The P11 used AMC forks and wheels. Both the N15/G15 series and P11 series used AMC transmissions rather than the Norton boxes.

    About 2500 P11s were built between March, 1967 and October, 1968, with 700 sold as 1967 model P11s, 1300 '68 P11As, and 497 '69 750 Rangers.
    The P11s were about 40lb lighter than the G15/N15, and were as light as 326 lbs in racing form.
     
  13. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Nice rundown of them Bill.
    Obviously they were trading on the known virtues of the Atlas engine for the scrambler.

    And the ONLY difference betwixt a Norton and an AMC gearbox was where a mounting lug was !?
    Although perhaps you are including the alloy chaincase in "transmission" ??
     
  14. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    @BillT

    Nice summary. I do not see Atlas Sport in the discourse, so I am going to take it the reference to Atlas Sport in the Amal guide is a short hand form of Sport Scrambler, and put my curiosity "on hold". Your synopsis is worthy of a print out which I intend to file in my Norton Resource Book.

    Here is the way my Norton Owners Manual names the Atlas and Scrambler:

    NortonManual.jpg

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Slick
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  15. BillT

    BillT

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Yes, the only difference between the Norton and AJS/Matchless gearbox was the lower lug location on the shell. (Norton about 6 O'clock and Matchless at about 4 O'clock, looking at the timing side of the bike)

    The G15-based scramblers used the AMC alloy primary as used on the G15/45. The P11 series used the same primary, except the primary was drilled through for a stud on which to hang the footpeg perch. This stud mounted to the primary side engine plate, and also provided additional support for the primary, not unlike the mounting stud for the Commando.
     
  16. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    A recent post on another thread sheds additional light on The Atlas Sports Model.

    https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/early-atlas-fuel-tank.25489/

    In this thread, Gilesy states "I visited the National motorcycle museum in Birmingham (UK) last week and they had a 1962 export model Atlas that had a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, it looked great, ...." and .... "In the museum it is labelled as an Atlas 750 SS"

    Slick
     
  17. Gilesy

    Gilesy

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    That is correct, I have a photo of the bike and the label which states the first 750 Norton was exported to Berliners, it had high bars and the 2 1/2 gall tank and was designated 'Norton 750 Atlas SS'. This bike had a featherbed frame. Last bikes to be made in Bracebridge St. When I sort out posting photos I will put them up. It was just like Slicks Atlas.
    Cheers
     
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