At the Risk of Opening a Can of Worms

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DevonNorton said:
Hello Norcoastal

This is a pic of a Gus Kuhn Commando taken at the classic bike show held at Shepton Mallet last weekend taken by my mate 'Geoff the Bonnie'.

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This is in a metalflake blue. I once had the pleasure of test riding a metalflake green one of these back in the early 1970s. The bike went really well. So well I attracted the unwanted attention of the local police motorcyclist who could not keep up on his Triumph 650 Saint!
Thankfully just a severe 'ticking off' was received. The distant days of my mispent (well spent) youth.

I expect you've found the Gus Kuhn's website but link here for info http://www.guskuhn.net/GKMLtd/GusKuhnMtrsLtd.htm?LMCL=m0aIty

As I've mentioned metalflake I think we can now safely say that the can of worms has been well and truely opened.;)

Andy
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SteveBorland said:
One thing that does strike me looking through all the lovely photos of Commandos is that it's visually important that the bottom of the tank and seat form a straight line, parallel to the rear frame loop. In the thread above, there's a photo of a PR replica where it's gone all droopy, as if it was left out in the sun for too long....

The same thing applies to a Fastback - essential that those long lines do actually match up.

I acquired a Roadster tank & seat as a swap for an Interstate set last year. I've only done a test fit, but the seat seems to have a bendy shape, so that the front part angles upwards. I don't know if this is normal for some types of Roadster seat or not, but it does bother my eye a bit.
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Agree 100%. Should never be droopy.
 
SteveBorland said:
In the thread above, there's a photo of a PR replica where it's gone all droopy...
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I hadn't done the final fitting and fastening when I took that photo. At the very end, I forgot to take better beauty shots.
Sorry.
 
SteveA said:
The only PR replica I have ridden. It certainly wasn't original and some wouldn't like that either

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I'd prefer that you not use the term "replica". The whole idea of a PR Commando was that a racer owner should be able to buy a complete motorcycle "with all the goodies" or build one himself as he saw fit. Any Commando that's built up to PR spec is a PR and one or the other isn't a "replica".
I'll agree that a look-alike (with no performance parts added) isn't much in the same corner, but a PR built for racing is a PR.
 
It's common in the art world for aficionados to read more into the artists work than the artist did originally.
My tuppence on your original pic, the tank doesn't fit the line of the side panels, the fairing and tank don't flow together and the seat and tank certainly don't flow together, aesthetically the seat looks too low and if that was the original intention it's amateurish.

Beautiful paint job but aesthetically its a silk purse out of a sows ear.

If that's one of his original bikes and you are going for the exact look of his bikes then go for it. But if you are going for something that looks good then I'd keep surfing. After all it's only a matter of finding the right three bits of plastic and packing them all out with washers to fit!!
 
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Blewdy Yaink said:
I'd prefer that you not use the term "replica". The whole idea of a PR Commando was that a racer owner should be able to buy a complete motorcycle "with all the goodies" or build one himself as he saw fit. Any Commando that's built up to PR spec is a PR and one or the other isn't a "replica".
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Well...strictly speaking , any PR not made by the factory is a replica. An original PR (like any other original vehicle) is worth a LOT more money than a vehicle that has been converted to that spec after the fact.

That being said, I'd buy a replica every time, Norton PR or Hemi Barracuda!
 
Ferreteer said:
My tuppence on your original pic, the tank doesn't fit the line of the side panels, the fairing and tank don't flow together and the seat and tank certainly don't flow together, aesthetically the seat looks too low and if that was the original intention it's amateurish...Beautiful paint job but aesthetically its a silk purse out of a sows ear.
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Whose original pic are you referring to?
 
Blewdy Yaink said:
I'd prefer that you not use the term "replica". The whole idea of a PR Commando was that a racer owner should be able to buy a complete motorcycle "with all the goodies" or build one himself as he saw fit. Any Commando that's built up to PR spec is a PR and one or the other isn't a "replica".
I'll agree that a look-alike (with no performance parts added) isn't much in the same corner, but a PR built for racing is a PR.
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So what do you call something that 'replicates' the PR specification?

Perhaps my knowledge of the factory ethos falls far short of yours; I had assued the factory built PRs with a view to ensuring parts were homologated for factory supported riders to race in production classes with those parts fitted, flogging a few off to privateers would have been a bonus, ditto a few parts, but unlikely to be considered a very profitable business due to the time spent building them in such small volume.

Whatever the ethos, and whatever you prefer to say.....Norton built some, private buyers, workshops and dealers like Gus Kukn built some more! And I guess continue to do so today. They cannot all be considered the same thing, today their desirability and hence 'value' will differ. Very few PR specification Commandos are being raced today, and no classes exist to specifically cater for the 1970s production racer, so today the desire to build one is largely replicate the factory racer image.

(actually very few Commando framed bikes of any spec are actively being raced, and indeed the number of active Commando engined racers is dropping like a stone)

Buyers normally want to place a value on these things, mainly because they believe they might gain from their ownership. You and I might think them deluded but one would expect more value to be associated with something built by the factory and maintained to that specification throughout it's life, than to a replica built in my shed!

One might also consider something built in period by the likes of Gus Kuhn to have it's own desirability and value, separate from a factory built PR, or anything built in my shed at any point in time!

Personally, I would prefer to own a 1970 Yellow Fastback like the one I owned in the '70s, but since there are few about, I might one day choose to build myself a replica!

The OP clearly did realise he might be opening a can of worms, but he probably didn't realise there would be jumbo sized worms in it....:D
 
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Haha, I have to tell you guys, I’ve been hanging on every word.

Since I last posted, I bought a Gus Kuhn tank that is very old, not sure if it’s original, but it could be. Very heavy duty. I also bought a set of rear sets.

I like the PR’s and if you are lucky enough to have an original (below), I would never mess with it.

But since this is a scratch build, I can do whatever I want. I’ve been researching and reading a lot and I think I’m going with a Gus tank, PR seat, front fender and fairing.

Very similar to the below, but my tank is a little shorter

At the Risk of Opening a Can of Worms


At the Risk of Opening a Can of Worms
 
The number plates will make it difficult to mount the sissy bar, and I'm not sure clipons are a good idea with an extended fork. :D
 
Whoa!.... Where did the sissy bar & extended forks come from?.... The mere thought is causing a waking nightmare. Don't want a mental image my mind cannot un-see.... The chopped Vincent has already placed my grip of reality tottering on the edge of never ending Vincent Price movies.
 
MexicoMike said:
I have the very rare '73 850 Fastback model in British Racing Green!
No, there never was such a bike produced by Norton. ;)
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That's interesting! I have the very rare '73 750 Fastback in BRG under construction in my shop! (And there never was such a bike as this produced by Norton either!)
 
The Harley-Davidson/Aermacchi 350 I had the pleasure to do some laps on when was just delivered from the factory in full race trim, was referred to as a factory replica.
 
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