Ashman's CNW starter

Fast Eddie said:

Why, does Ashman like JH mags?

I didn’t know…

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I don't know either lol...

Maybe I didn't tell my JH mag story... (or maybe I did, but I'll repeat it JUST ONCE)

My '69 Triumph Bonneville scratch build- The roller actually DID NOT have a top end, no handlebars, and no sidecover. I had those parts on hand, so I put them on for this "before" photo. It DID have a hollow JH mag body in a box with the meters and headlight shell which I installed for this photo.



"After" photo, about as nice as this bike ever got. I had corresponded with JH and they told me to just send them the empty case. They sent back a like-new mag, with plug wires and two decals. I seem to recall it was $375 with postage. Not much less than a new one, at that time...



Anyway, I used to bet people $100 that it would start on the first kick, anytime, any place; at bike shows, rallies, parties, wherever.

It NEVER failed to start on the 1st kick.

I think it was 2008, at one of our charity fundraiser bike shows that my wyfe and I used to have every year. We were tired and worn out at the end of the day, cleaning up and loading out my bikes, my good friend Ray was giving me a hand. The bike had not been started all day, I was too busy running the show, never even put it in the judging and didn't even do the "loud Pipes" contest.

I bet him $100 it would start on the first kick before we rolled it onto the trailer. He said he was flat broke and shouldn't be betting money he didn't have. I told him he didn't have to pay if it started, only I would have to pay if it DIDN'T. So, he took the bet.

I proceeded to swing my leg over and kicked the sidestand up with my toe, then flipped out the kick lever and gave it a good solid kick just over compression.

(crickets)

I FORGOT TO TURN ON THE GAS AND TICKLE THE CARBS!!!!!!

I turned on the gas, tickled both carbs and gave it a half-hearted kick and it instantly fired into a nice loping idle at 1,000 RPM - AS USUAL.

In those days, I had a habit of keeping a $100 bill under the insole of my boots, sort of "emergency money". I fetched it out, handed it to him and he almost was in tears. It turned out he was busted flat and hadn't even eaten that day. After we unloaded at my house, I took him out and we had a feast with all my family. What a great day.

I never stopped running that bet till the truck rolled away with the bike when I sold it, and the buyer reported identical results - JUST REMEMBER TO TICKLE THE CARBS!

My 81 Triumph Thunderbird was the same with the JH and single Amal, one of the reasons I have a love of Joe Hunt magneto's, set up right they fire first kick every time and the Norton is the same even if it sits a few months if we are away or riding my other bike.
My mate's Triumph hard tail chopper his Joe Hunt last year let him down after 21 years of faultless starting 1st kick every time, broken wire under the coil inside the maggie, fixed and now still going the same again, so no need to retard them to fire them up first kick and without any kick back.
So with a electric leg my JH should be just as good.

Those screwed together early first version rare earth mag rotors were not like any other Hunt mag rotor I have seen before or since.

Not happy customers.

I think it's absolutely fabulous that a thread on Ash's cNw E-start is derailed by discussion on (of all things ) dodgy Joe Hunt magnetos!

Fast Eddie said:

Ash is moving on from losing his leg 4 months ago.

Whilst John is still trapped in the trauma of a dodgy mag experience from 26 years ago.

John… it’s time to move on mate…

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I moved on from day one of losing my leg, no use being angry or traumatised from my injuries, just get back on with life as soon as I can, Tuesday I have rehab and might know more about my new leg progress, but I say another week or more before it's ready.

My worry now is the hold up from Boarder Force with the big box sent from GP and hope I done the paper work right.

Ashley

PS Old Joe Hunt magneto's aren't the same as the new 4 rare earth magnet JHs, but then I never had any problems from my older JH maggie on my old Triumph.
As you can see in my pic my Joe Hunt hasn't been touched since I mounted it over 15 years ago now.

Johnm no use getting upset over a bad Joe Hunt experience, seems not everyone who had a JH had any problems, so don't leave because of this, and maybe you just had a bad one as well your friend, my first JH maggie I brought second hand off my mate Don who used his JH on a Triton race bike and the thought of sliding down the track from a crash he decided the JH was not good hanging off the side of the motor, he had it rebuilt and sold it to me for the price of the rebuild and I ran it for 9 years on my road going Triumph before I sold the bike with the JH still on it.

But a lot of people seem to have a problem with the Joe Hunt hanging off the end of the cam and also not being able to retard the Joe Hunt, seems a lot think having them set up at full advance is not a good idea for starting, but I can say for sure I never had any problems kicking both my old Triumph or Norton first kick every time from a full advance firing or never had any kick back from doing so, in a way its seems to be a proven miff by myself and others that they don't need to be retarded to kick them over for starting on full advance.

My Norton also idles and rides at slow revs in suburbia at full advance without any problems at all and open the throttle up it just picks up and goes without any misfire the quicker it spins up the bigger the spark, so together with the JH, Amals and the ES will all work together very nicely, well at lease I will find out down the road when everything is set up in a few month's time I am sure of that, I am looking forward to the reworking of my Norton, set up the electric starter, reinstall the original Featherbed oil tank, make a battery tray to fit whatever size battery I will use and rewire my Norton for the extra wiring for the starter, so a lot to do with one leg but I will do it.

My mate came around yesterday just for the day and we both got into the shed clean up and make room for the work ahead, today I just got to clean up my work benches and rehang all my tools on the tool boards, I have a big mess on my main work bench from making models for my train layout, I still have a few models to make but I have plenty of time on my hand, I say a few months of learning to walk on my own without help or aid, its a long road to full recovery and working on the Norton and train layout, busy, busy, busy, at lease I won't be bored as well all my rehab as well thrown in.

So Johnm please don't leave as I don't have any problems if you had a bad run from Joe Hunt magneto's, there just not for everyone and not all a perfect and it was a long time ago.

Ashley

Hi there.

Thanks guys. Jerry messaged as well so I'm definitely staying. Changed my mind.

I'm a bit grumpy and sad just at present. Spent a few days with a bike mate who has bad cancer. Diagnosed in Jan, now on a morphine pump and things are not looking great. I'm honestly a bit upset about it. Young guy by our standards 65. Just retired. Was still racing last November with a ton of projects in his shed to keep him happy for years. No excuse for getting grumpy but really kind of feeling a bit crap about my friend.

Ash has the right attitude look forward and get after it. None of us are here forever.

Thanks guys. Regards John

Aussies and Kiwi's we all put sh it on each other but really we are all good friends across the dich, I have a few good Kiwi mates and man do we put sh it on each other, we have our mates here and Kiwi's have their bro's and we all love a beer or 2 or 3 or more together and put more sh it on each other, what are mates for bro.

Ash

Sorry to hear about your good mate John and same here I have lost 3 good friends in the last 12 months at a younger age to myself one from abstors cancer and the other just a few weeks ago found dead in his house and the 3rd one just last week one year older than me, my policewoman daughter told me about Russel death as she read the police report the day after they did a welfare check on him and found him, been dead for over 3 days from natural causes.

Ashley

ashman said:

Aussies and Kiwi's we all put sh it on each other but really we are all good friends across the dich, I have a few good Kiwi mates and man do we put sh it on each other, we have our mates here and Kiwi's have their bro's and we all love a beer or 2 or 3 or more together and put more sh it on each other, what are mates for bro.

Ash

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Exactly. I'm a Kiwi but have a Ozzie passport holding son who was in the Australian army. And a genuine Ozzie granddaughter born in Darwin. You don't get more Ozzie than a Northern Territorian. They are seriously crazy up there I tell you.

Oh by the way my 500 Dommie race bike does idle perfectly on the Hunt/ Morris mag and good Amal Premiers. Used to be able to bump start it pretty easy but use rollers now. Problems not the bike but my knee.

When you get around to fitting the electric start I found it a very easy fit. Only issue was carefully routing the wiring. Fits perfectly but nothing spare for any wrong turns.

I was also very careful about belt alignment having had issues with belts on race bikes in the past. I did install adjusters both sides because I found my gearbox liked to twist slightly when tightened up.

It's great when it's on. I spent 40 plus years saying i never want a starter on my Commando. But when your knees are screwed then needs must.

All the best John

They aren't crazy up in the NT they all suffer going tropo living in the tropics all year round 30+c temps even in winter and wet seasons and high humidity does have a effect on some up there and they have their famous Dawin stubbie as well, I have one empty Dawin stubbie in my shed, my brother and his family lived up there in the Navy when cyclone Tracy hit xmas day back in 74, they lost everything.

Yes we all have our moments on our forums and get upset from some attitudes some people have but hey we are all grown ups here and some comments shouldn't happen but it does, I had plenty of comments from members who didn't agree with some of the comments I made over the years, but I talk about my Norton not theirs and what I do to mine that keeps it running the way I like it to run and not everyone has the same ideas as myself, but that is what forums are all about we all doing things differently but that seems to upset some, but I don't push things on anyone, we all do our own things to our own bikes, that's what bikin is all about.

Boy did I cop it from mates when I decided to build my Commando into a Featherbed frame after only 4 years of owning it from new, but that was my choice not theirs and to be honest I didn't know how it was going to go but in the long term it worked out as I planned it, I have a better handling bike, and with the work done to my motor for the Featherbed it has more torque than a stock motor, breathes a lot better without the classic Norton mufflers, I love upswept short mufflers and my Norton runs really well with them, it all boils down to how I want my bike set up, not the way everyone else think it should look.

I had people say I shouldn't put a lot of stuff in the Commando section but hey my Featherbed is 80% Commando with just a different frame and fuel tank and a few other smaller things and Jerry seem to not have any problem with it, some people just can't help themselves and mostly from people who don't put on the miles on their Commando's, in 50 years of owning my hotrod 850 its always been a rider, its no show pony but always a rider and has more miles on the clock than most other Norton owners ever done, all because I know my own Norton I built it to be reliable and if something brakes or wears out I replace or fix it straight away without thinking about.

As I say we are all different in what we do and how we do things completely different to everyone else and Access Norton is the best and makes my day reading what others are doing and in my own ways of things I do and being the way I am if I can have a joke or funny stories as a bit of humor thrown in make it a better day for me and to be honest I need that in my situation I am going through now, it helps with my recovery and to not over think things or worry about things and good friendship here helps a lot.
Sorry for my long ramblings but it helps me in my recovery and to take my mind off things that has happened to both Debra and myself in the last 4+ months.

Ashley

johnm said:

Hi there.

Thanks guys. Jerry messaged as well so I'm definitely staying. Changed my mind.

I'm a bit grumpy and sad just at present. Spent a few days with a bike mate who has bad cancer. Diagnosed in Jan, now on a morphine pump and things are not looking great. I'm honestly a bit upset about it. Young guy by our standards 65. Just retired. Was still racing last November with a ton of projects in his shed to keep him happy for years. No excuse for getting grumpy but really kind of feeling a bit crap about my friend.

Ash has the right attitude look forward and get after it. None of us are here forever.

Thanks guys. Regards John

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Glad you had a re-think John !

But I disagree… that’s a very understandable reason for being a bit down.

Try to stay strong… for your mates sake at least.

johnm said:

Hi there.

Thanks guys. Jerry messaged as well so I'm definitely staying. Changed my mind.

I'm a bit grumpy and sad just at present. Spent a few days with a bike mate who has bad cancer. Diagnosed in Jan, now on a morphine pump and things are not looking great. I'm honestly a bit upset about it. Young guy by our standards 65. Just retired. Was still racing last November with a ton of projects in his shed to keep him happy for years. No excuse for getting grumpy but really kind of feeling a bit crap about my friend.

Ash has the right attitude look forward and get after it. None of us are here forever.

Thanks guys. Regards John

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My mate passed away last night. Sad times.

Keep at it lads. Ash gets after it. Life is for living. !!!

It s sad when we lose a good mate, but life goes on and think about all the good times you had with him, better to be gone than to suffer, seems the only time all our mates get together is when they are in a box and having a few drinks together talking about old times the good times and bad times.

Still waiting to hear back from BFA about my package as it was a long weekend but now Wednesday and no reply from my paperwork, I filled in and sent it to them, should have heard back by now, they sent me a computer generated reply to say they received my paperwork when I sent it off on Friday, but then they have a lot to do to get money out of everyone.

Well at lease the shed is nice and clean just about to go up there now to clean up my work bench and test out the new draftsman chair, with the train layout my shed is getting smaller and once I move the lift table in be even smaller with the Norton on it, should I hold back working on the Norton and leave it till after its 50 year celebration of my ownership on the 21st June, be good to fire it up on that day with the kicker, I am sure will have a mate that can kick it over while we have a few drinks and memories with all the mates who been with me on my Norton days when we were all 17 years old and starting to ride road going motorcycles, what do you think wait another 6 weeks, then again might take that long to get my package, who fu cking knows, waiting to hear back from them and paying GST/duty fees, bloody taxman.

Would have been great if I could have taken it out for a ride on the day but being legless now that plan has changed since the accident.

Ashley

Hi Ash

if it were me I'd wait till the 50 year anniversary. For me and my Commando that will be in two years time.

In the meanwhile you could maybe check out the Mighty garage videos on the instal.



I installed the CNW on my late model Mk2 850 about 6 years ago and can add a few things to the video.

First off I found I had to carefully route the new wires to ensure nothing was stretched and it fitted nicely. I didn't protect the wire up to the handle bar switch enough and managed to cut it with the steering lock.

Next if you look at his first video he has a gearbox adjuster on both sides. I did thst too because I'm very careful with aligning belt drives. Broke two belts racing my 500 Dommie. Matt says it's not necessary but I prefer it. Adjusting the drive side can be challenging with the starter motor installed. I actually oriented mine toward the back and adjust it using a long extension on a socket as he did on the timing side. I needle punched markings on the adjusting nut so I could count and check the turns. Spent a lot of time ensuring the gearbox shaft and crank were parallel and there after only moved the gearbox adjustment counting flats on both sides.

I also used Barnet clutch plates. I found the surflex yellow coloured course covered friction plates to be extremely harsh in a dry non oil environment and replaced them almost immediately.

I cannot recall if the no of teeth on the engine and clutch change the gearing but could be a good idea to check and adjust the gearbox sproket if necessary. I have a 21 tooth sprocket.

I had a bit of trouble doing the screw and lock nut adjustment on the intermediatory starter sprocket. I found they shook themselves undone almost immediately on starting the bike and both ended up on the ground. Took a few goes to get that right and needed to adjust again a week latter.

I think the mainshaft on my gearbox must have been a bit short because I had to machine either the clutch nut or the seal unit a bit shorter to get the right clearances.

My instal was about 6 or 7 years ago and within a few weeks the sprag clutch bearing failed. I know of two others from that time that also failed. Matt replaced mine in a week and no issue since so maybe he got a bad batch at that time.

I see your bike does not have a ham can filter so you won't be worried about a non standard filter but I like the look so made up a shorter look alike. I'll try to find photos. The bike easily runs up to 100 mph on the speedo no issues and carburetoration is good so the filter size seem OK. Mmmm - turns out i can't post photos at the moment. Computer gremlins

Thats all I remember. I know weight is important to you and you gain a few kg. But it's down low apart from battery and I can't tell any difference

Hi John, I am not a fan of the Mighty Garage, if fact I never been a fan, I watched a few shows and after a while I watch something else, I do my own work and no need to watch it, there are also a lot of Ytube about the CWN install around I will just follow the instructions and do what I do best when working on my Norton.

I ran a RGM belt drive kit on my Norton for over 3 years and already have double adjusters mounted on each side of my plates and after sometime my belt was trying to run off, never blew a belt but it was wearing the outside of the belt down and ended up shattering the keeper plate on the front pully no matter how much adjustments done, I ended up going back to a triplex chain drive, I had 3 years of no problems with the belt drive then it went all wrong with trying to run off so maybe the GB and crank started to go out of parallel, but I will be making sure everything is right with this set up.

To be honest I found no difference running a belt drive to a chain drive on my Norton, some say the belts run smoother but didn't feel any difference to me, the chain drive has a bit more give than a belt set up, the stock clutch plates did bite a bit quicker with running a dry primary, I had a spare inner case that I mod for air to run through my primary.

I have 2 full belt drive kits the one I ran on my Norton was all steel and I brought a alloy belt drive kit for my 1960 Manxman cafe racer build which I still have but sold the Manxman last year in boxes, just didn't have the time to finish the project, I had the parts to run it with a Commando clutch all from RGM, I put the money into the start of my train layout and new hobby.

As I say I won't have any problems installing the CWN ES kit as my bike might look its age but when it comes to the working of it, I am very fussy in how things are set up and one of the reasons my Norton has been so reliable when I built it back in the 80s, I didn't build it for a show pony or a polish queen, its built for riding, handling and terrorising the ranges it was built for and slower bikes never know I am behind them till I am pasting them usually in the corners and Rob, Mt Mee was where I done most of my terrorising on my Norton in my younger days or up in the Malaney ranges, I done a lot of high speeds on those roads, can't do that there now too many cops and speed cameras these days.

Ashley