Ashamed to be British?

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I think it is diabolical that in 21st century England, just changing one word in two equally viable three word sentences can provoke such diametric actions....
One is deemed acceptable (and actively promoted), the other deemed abhorrent to the point of investigation and castigation.
What disturbes me isthat in the 21st Century , to be British is still by some perceived to be White.
 

Fast Eddie

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I think the best answer to this was given many centuries ago with the establishment of Providence in New England... Provided you are sincere and in good faith,then you should be free to espouse any doctrine.
Well... well said there Mike !

That would seem to go a long way IMHO.

But... we have lost that balance today. These days, however sincere you are, anything you say about race that is not in defence of blacks... about sex that is not in defence of women... about LGBTQIA that is not in defence of LGBTQIA... and the environment that does not match the pure green agenda... etc, etc makes you a bigot, gets you censored and ‘cancelled’ on social media, etc.

In the West we used to criticise countries and regimes for not allowing free speech. Yet we are now doing it ourselves even without a Tyrannical regime enforcing it !

We have lost the balance...
 

NPeteN

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I disagree there. How can saying white lives matter be compared to falsely shouting fire and causing death!?

Free speech means defending ones right to express an opinion or point, and be open to debating it. Debating opposing points is a fundamental requirement of a civilisation. Shouting ‘fire’ falsely is not expressing an opinion...

I can think of many valid arguments these banner people might have. I can also think of many invalid ones too, so I’m not going to second guess.

Apparently, even saying ‘all lives matter’ is being called extreme right wing and racist now.

To anyone who understands the English language enough to understand that simple three word sentance, that is patently absurd.
"Black lives matter too"

So, now that I've added a word to the end are you okay with supporting equal rights?
 

Fast Eddie

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"Black lives matter too"

So, now that I've added a word to the end are you okay with supporting equal rights?
I have ALWAYS supported equal rights Sir.

Now, I’m not saying this is how YOU meant it, but read your sentence carefully, it clearly insinuates that I did not ‘before’ you made it “okay” for me to do so. And that’s exactly what I think is wrong with the current climate.

But, seriously, what is wrong with “All lives Matter” ?

Or, even better “Life Matters” ?

And why would someone assume that offering those phrases is IN ANY WAY a sign that someone does not support equal rights ?!
 
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Well... well said there Mike !

That would seem to go a long way IMHO.

But... we have lost that balance today. These days, however sincere you are, anything you say about race that is not in defence of blacks... about sex that is not in defence of women... about LGBTQIA that is not in defence of LGBTQIA... and the environment that does not match the pure green agenda... etc, etc makes you a bigot, gets you censored and ‘cancelled’ on social media, etc.

In the West we used to criticise countries and regimes for not allowing free speech. Yet we are now doing it ourselves even without a Tyrannical regime enforcing it !

We have lost the balance...
Yes we have and it is very worrying. Is it because of a breakdown in what used to be called the Civic Culture and if so what underlies it? Perhaps people are so insecure in their personal identity that boundary becomes allimportant to them
Difference is now not secular but rapidly gets converted into otherness.
 

NPeteN

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I have ALWAYS supported equal rights Sir.

Now, I’m not saying this is how YOU meant it, but read your sentence carefully, it clearly insinuates that I did not ‘before’ you made it “okay” for me to do so. And that’s exactly what I think is wrong with the current climate.

But, seriously, what is wrong with “All lives Matter” ?

Or, even better “Life Matters” ?

And why would someone assume that offering those phrases is IN ANY WAY a sign that someone does not support equal rights ?!
It's a given, that's why.

It's completely unnecessary to point out that lives matter, we all know this.

The point is, in America, blacks are more likely to be killed because of their skin.

Hence, black lives matter (too) just as much as your coopted slogan of "all lives matter" which was derived as a way to troll a legitimate movement.

Just let it be black lives matter. There is no need to get all fussy about " but all lives matter!" It sounds whiny.
.
Sorry- these are just my thoughts on that slogan, not a personal attack on you. Just my opinion on it.
 
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Fast Eddie

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Sorry- these are just my thoughts on that slogan, not a personal attack on you. Just my opinion on it.
I appreciate that, I respect that, I also think you make a valid point. I still do not fully agree. But (I hope) that’s OK.
 
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It started out as a British thread, so to bring it partially back the the UK the number of deaths in England in police custody show that the proportion of black and minority deaths is roughly equal to the demographic breakdown ie there appears to be no bias even though blacks are more likely to be arrested. When you then look at the overall black death rate outside of police involvement then the biggest killer of blacks is other blacks.
 

Craig

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The scales of Justice don’t seem to work for folks that make up visible minority in my country , out West farmers last year shot and killed First Nations Men for allegedly trying to steal vehicles .... no charges even laid , not sure how it would work if I shot another of my kind for same offence , kinda why I have no real belief in system , however if someone harms one of mine they can expect retribution times 2 and yes I will pay for my actions no doubt , try and stay as far away from law figures and have no willing contact with that system .... have never called the law for any reason ...
 
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I'm proud of my British heritage, as well as proud to be an American. Although l'm currently an expatriated one. It was a horrible event that happened in Minnesota that's for sure. But to defund the police is to me certainly not the answer. Not sure what the answer is really at this point in time. Living in a free country is clearly a good thing. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is something all people the world over should be able have. That comes by way of the rule of law. Those in positions to uphold the law should do so fairly. But law and order has to be enforced and justice needs to be blind to all but the facts so as to be fair. I'll get off my soap box now, peace out.
 

Fast Eddie

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I don’t get the defund the police argument either.

If you defund, they’ll have to cut back. That means less cops on the ground. That means more occasions where too few cops are dispatched to incidents. That leads to situations where the cops are outnumbered and threatened, and fear for their safety. And when that happens there is far more chance of them over reacting and killing someone !

More cops means the above is less likely to happen.

More cops also means more cops to monitor the cops, and speak up / intervene when they see something is not right.

The problem is NOT caused be the number of cops and / or their funding, frankly I think that’s an absurd argument put out by the press. The issue is rogue cops... either rogue to begin with; indicating a failure in the recruitment process... or turned rogue; indicating a failure in the supervision / management / leadership process.

I believe the current media ‘swell’ is dangerous. We have to remember that the are bad people out there. Cops need to be brave and they need to be able to intervene in dangerous and unlawful situations, and guess what, that’s often gonna look ugly when filmed on a cell phone with the context edited out. The notion that you can always do this by talking to the perpetrators like they’re cute little kittens is wrong, and dangerous.

Don’t miss read this, I’m not in anyway defending rogue cops or excusing rogue behaviour. Ex-officer Chauvin and his cohorts deserve everything they get, as do any genuinely rogue cops.

But the police need to be able to police or we‘re all gonna be in a bad state. If the police feel unable to intervene, as is starting to happen here in the U.K. with the illegal street raves, it is a very dangerous position. It leads to undermining police authority, mob rule, no go zones, and ghettoisation. SERIOUSLY counterproductive !
 
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Another example of the offended shutting down 'offensive views', Coronation Chicken and Kedgeree are going to be banned next.


Two of the most influential food publishing companies are reviewing their recipes for cultural insensitivity amid anger over chefs appropriating dishes without crediting their inspiration.

Bon Appétit, a high-end magazine and website owned by Vogue publisher Condé Nast, has launched an audit after facing repeated accusations of “ethnic erasure” in its promotion of international dishes and ingredients.

The editor-in-chief of BBC Good Food and Olive, two of Britain’s leading food magazines, has launched a similar review of their 13,000-recipe archive. Christine Hayes said that this had resulted in recipes with unacceptable broad-stroke language such as “Asian salad” removed or amended.
 

freddie1105

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Another example of the offended shutting down 'offensive views', Coronation Chicken and Kedgeree are going to be banned next.


Two of the most influential food publishing companies are reviewing their recipes for cultural insensitivity amid anger over chefs appropriating dishes without crediting their inspiration.

Bon Appétit, a high-end magazine and website owned by Vogue publisher Condé Nast, has launched an audit after facing repeated accusations of “ethnic erasure” in its promotion of international dishes and ingredients.

The editor-in-chief of BBC Good Food and Olive, two of Britain’s leading food magazines, has launched a similar review of their 13,000-recipe archive. Christine Hayes said that this had resulted in recipes with unacceptable broad-stroke language such as “Asian salad” removed or amended.
i have policemans heel and tennis elbow. expecting a knock at the door any minute. don't need or want anyone apologising for me. it's got ridiculous now!
 

NPeteN

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I am a pretty progressive fellow but I have to agree. I have noticed a disturbing trend amongst my peers, having not really faced much actual adversity they actively hunt out things to be offended or feel oppressed by.

When much of your cultural identity is founded in the struggle against oppression (older African American generations here in the US) What happens to the younger gen when that oppression dissipates?

Carving out a new, positive identity can be scary for young folks, easier to point fingers at statues or boycott cookbooks.

Tear down the Confederate monuments but leave Lincoln, Washington, Grant, Roosevelt and Penny Ln. alone please.

Is there a similar phenomenon is England?
 
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You
I am a pretty progressive fellow but I have to agree. I have noticed a disturbing trend amongst my peers, having not really faced much actual adversity they actively hunt out things to be offended or feel oppressed by.

When much of your cultural identity is founded in the struggle against oppression (older African American generations here in the US) What happens to the younger gen when that oppression dissipates?

Carving out a new, positive identity can be scary for young folks, easier to point fingers at statues or boycott cookbooks.

Tear down the Confederate monuments but leave Lincoln, Washington, Grant, Roosevelt and Penny Ln. alone please.

Is there a similar phenomenon is England?
Short answer: Yes!
 
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Just a couple of examples from the internet that have some of us scratching our heads? Added for the source material rather than the reporting tone:


 

acadian

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The scales of Justice don’t seem to work for folks that make up visible minority in my country , out West farmers last year shot and killed First Nations Men for allegedly trying to steal vehicles .... no charges even laid , not sure how it would work if I shot another of my kind for same offence , kinda why I have no real belief in system , however if someone harms one of mine they can expect retribution times 2 and yes I will pay for my actions no doubt , try and stay as far away from law figures and have no willing contact with that system .... have never called the law for any reason ...
First Nation on my father's side. The reserve where he grew up, lived and died back east has a treaty claim to coastal waters that extends year round fisheries privileges to band members. This was negotiated in 1892. The neighbouring francophone fisheries have typically and normally respected the boundaries and the seasonal restrictions they operate under. About 15 years ago poaching in our waters by commercial (non indigenous) fisherman came to the boiling point. This was mostly by anglophone fisheries crossing the Northumberland straight from PEI, not only were they poaching but doing so outside of their regulated season. They didn't think it was "fair" that the natives got exclusive rights to a portion of coastal waters and could fish year round. RCMP and coast guard were called in but didn't want to get involved in "indian politics", so band members started patrolling the waters themselves, unarmed at first, but that changed after a couple of encounters with non-native boats where shots were fired. Long story short, no non native fisherman were ever killed, but 2 natives were... and this was when they were out pulling lobster traps alone (they were sustenance fishing). No charges were ever laid and no one was ever arrested, even though it was plainly obvious who was behind the murders. The band police service was formed after that because we knew we couldn't rely on the RCMP, and they run patrol boats now.
 

Craig

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I remember those days during the fishing dispute clearly , a real powder keg situation ! .... no one ever seems to get caught during such actions ,by any of our noble Police forces..... I think at one time maybe there was some honour to wear that scarlet tunic , just not for a long time .... now it about protecting interests not people , especially non-white folks .... which I don’t abide by
 

Fast Eddie

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I am a pretty progressive fellow but I have to agree. I have noticed a disturbing trend amongst my peers, having not really faced much actual adversity they actively hunt out things to be offended or feel oppressed by.
Why can’t people who do this see the damage they cause? They inflame the ‘right’ and the degrade their own position.

It undermines and de values the real issues that do deserve attention and do need addressing.
 
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