Are Avon RoadRiders about all that works with WM2 wheels

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I'm definitely getting worse. I went out to check rim width because I remembered it was stamped on the Akronts. 2.15, which is WM3, I think.

Then I was going to take a photo of the Conti to show how it sits and I find it's a Roadrunner Universal, 100/90-19.

Can't even remember fitting that.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Well, I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK, you would be effectively be risking waving goodbye to your insurance cover in the event of an accident if you were found to have such a 'wrong' tyre.

You'd also be at risk of a ticket and 3 points from an eagle eyed copper I suspect.
Click to expand...

Do your police really have that much free time?
 
swooshdave said:
Fast Eddie said:
Well, I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK, you would be effectively be risking waving goodbye to your insurance cover in the event of an accident if you were found to have such a 'wrong' tyre.

You'd also be at risk of a ticket and 3 points from an eagle eyed copper I suspect.
Click to expand...

Do your police really have that much free time?
Click to expand...

Not under normal circumstances no, far from it to be honest!

But if you give them and 'excuse' ie being involved in some kind of road traffic accident, or stopped for something else, then they can often 'find the time' to look harder.

The biggest risk IMHO is being involved in an accident that involves an insurance 'Loss Assessor' it is these guys jobs to find such issues purely in the interest of reducing / avoiding paying out for claims.
 
swooshdave said:
Fast Eddie said:
Well, I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK, you would be effectively be risking waving goodbye to your insurance cover in the event of an accident if you were found to have such a 'wrong' tyre.

You'd also be at risk of a ticket and 3 points from an eagle eyed copper I suspect.
Click to expand...

Do your police really have that much free time?
Click to expand...


I believe the police in the US would investigate any accident carefully in which there was a serious injury or fatality. And then the bike would be impounded, and depending on the details of the accident, and how many insurance companies might be involved, there would certainly be a thorough insurance company investigation, including a good look at the vehicles involved.


I prefer the look of the original 19 inch size tires front and back on a Norton, and wish there were more tire options. Had Avon Super Venoms on a bike once, and they looked good and seemed to work well.

Isn't the trouble of rotating a front to the rear more trouble than it's worth? Removing a front wheel and the tire, mounting a new one (and changing tubes?), and then mounting a used tire on the back? Doesn't seem like it's worth it for the savings.




.
 
What about Dunlop K81 410-19 and also Avon Roadrunner universal in the same size? These are still available on Amazon and what we used before the newer Avons were on the market.
 
Robert_Norton said:
swooshdave said:
Fast Eddie said:
Well, I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK, you would be effectively be risking waving goodbye to your insurance cover in the event of an accident if you were found to have such a 'wrong' tyre.

You'd also be at risk of a ticket and 3 points from an eagle eyed copper I suspect.
Click to expand...

Do your police really have that much free time?
Click to expand...


I believe the police in the US would investigate any accident carefully in which there was a serious injury or fatality. And then the bike would be impounded, and depending on the details of the accident, and how many insurance companies might be involved, there would certainly be a thorough insurance company investigation, including a good look at the vehicles involved.


I prefer the look of the original 19 inch size tires front and back on a Norton, and wish there were more tire options. Had Avon Super Venoms on a bike once, and they looked good and seemed to work well.

Isn't the trouble of rotating a front to the rear more trouble than it's worth? Removing a front wheel and the tire, mounting a new one (and changing tubes?), and then mounting a used tire on the back? Doesn't seem like it's worth it for the savings.




.
Click to expand...

Simple procedure with a bit more effort. You don't have the problem of deteriorating handling with a worn front tyre as there is still plenty of meat on it when it goes on the rear and your best tyre should be on the front.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
I'm definitely getting worse. I went out to check rim width because I remembered it was stamped on the Akronts. 2.15, which is WM3, I think.

Then I was going to take a photo of the Conti to show how it sits and I find it's a Roadrunner Universal, 100/90-19.

Can't even remember fitting that.
Click to expand...

Amen, brother!
 
Robert_Norton said:
Isn't the trouble of rotating a front to the rear more trouble than it's worth? Removing a front wheel and the tire, mounting a new one (and changing tubes?), and then mounting a used tire on the back? Doesn't seem like it's worth it for the savings.




.
Click to expand...


I don't really find this a daunting task and has the benefit keeping fresh rubber on both ends. By fresh rubber I mean chemically fresh, not tread looks. I would go through several rears to one front if not rotated but a front that's not wearing, is still aging.
And just to through another personal action in the mix, I don't bother changing tubes much either. I think that as they are not exposed to rubber killing ozone they are not deteriorating or becoming unsafe with age. I always give them a good inspection for cracks or splits and particularly any rust build-up around the stem area.
 
If you are cheap like me try this. I run a Shinko SR 712F 100/90 -19 size on the front and a 100/90 -19 Avon Roadrider on the back. The tread pattern is similar enough and rides beautifully.
 
I doubt modern Avon tyres (Roadrider) are designed for our original narrow WM2 Commando rims. Although the Roadrider 90/90 fits great on a WM2 rim a 90/90 is quite narrow on the rear. Roadrider 100/90 does squeeze on a WM2 rim so it really needs a WM3 rim. Also Roadriders don't look right in combination with original front fender due to the huge gap between the tyre and fender. For performance and looks I still prefer Dunlop TT100 4.10 x 19 on original WM2 rims.
 
I recently went back to a 19 front wheel after some weaving issues, The ebay wheel I bought came with a 10 year old Michelin macadam. No issues so far with a 110/90/18 road rider on a WM3 rim on the back. i'm just about to revert to a 19" wm3 on the rear with a 110/90 road rider. It still feels like it's short finals to a tank slapper anything above 75 but I only weigh 11.5 stone. Load it up with camping gear or a pillion and it's reasonably stable. Winter is here so a handlebar screen and a top box don't do handling any favours
 
Avon don't do a 110/90 x 19. !00/90 is the biggest they do in 19 inch. Do yourself a favour and go to 2.5 inch x 19 rims with 100/90 x 19 Roadriders. You'll be glad you did.
 
gripper said:
I recently went back to a 19 front wheel after some weaving issues, The ebay wheel I bought came with a 10 year old Michelin macadam. No issues so far with a 110/90/18 road rider on a WM3 rim on the back. i'm just about to revert to a 19" wm3 on the rear with a 110/90 road rider. It still feels like it's short finals to a tank slapper anything above 75 but I only weigh 11.5 stone. Load it up with camping gear or a pillion and it's reasonably stable. Winter is here so a handlebar screen and a top box don't do handling any favours
Click to expand...

Tank slappers and front end wobbles are caused by over correction of the front wheel by the side forces acting on the front tyre contact patch when the wheel is not pointing dead ahead to the frame line (Motorcycle Chassis Design by Tony Foale and Vic Willoughby). Explains why wobbles increase with speed. You need to find out why your font end dosent point in the same direction as the frame when riding in a straight line. Adding weight may reduce wobbles because there is more tyre grip so more resistance and the trail is reduced slightly so the side force has less effect. Searching this forum turns up quite a few posts on handling problems?? This surprising as I thought Nortons had a good reputation. Learning all the time!
 
Fixodent. said:
gripper said:
I recently went back to a 19 front wheel after some weaving issues, The ebay wheel I bought came with a 10 year old Michelin macadam. No issues so far with a 110/90/18 road rider on a WM3 rim on the back. i'm just about to revert to a 19" wm3 on the rear with a 110/90 road rider. It still feels like it's short finals to a tank slapper anything above 75 but I only weigh 11.5 stone. Load it up with camping gear or a pillion and it's reasonably stable. Winter is here so a handlebar screen and a top box don't do handling any favours
Click to expand...

Tank slappers and front end wobbles are caused by over correction of the front wheel by the side forces acting on the front tyre contact patch when the wheel is not pointing dead ahead to the frame line (Motorcycle Chassis Design by Tony Foale and Vic Willoughby). Explains why wobbles increase with speed. You need to find out why your font end dosent point in the same direction as the frame when riding in a straight line. Adding weight may reduce wobbles because there is more tyre grip so more resistance and the trail is reduced slightly so the side force has less effect. Searching this forum turns up quite a few posts on handling problems?? This surprising as I thought Nortons had a good reputation. Learning all the time!
Click to expand...

I have always understood that Commandos had a tendency to wobble at higher speeds (only what I had heard or read) and my PO had fitted a front end stabilizer so I guess that was one more piece of input that Commandos may need them.
 
My commando used to weave above 90mph when I had an 18" rim on the back ,tried many different tyres,a steering damper etc and with or without a passenger it weaved the same ,in the end I re laced the back wheel to a 19" and no more weaving ,also I should add the whole time i had an extra iso under the gearbox and an iso head steady a braced swingarm mk3 cotterpin swingarm pivot etc cheers
 
Yellow_Cad said:
I have always understood that Commandos had a tendency to wobble at higher speeds (only what I had heard or read) and my PO had fitted a front end stabilizer so I guess that was one more piece of input that Commandos may need them.
Click to expand...

Any motorcycle will weave wobble tankslap when the front wheel 'slip angle' gets to a point were the input side force acting on the tyre contact patch is enough to overecorrect the stabilising effect created by the trail. A front end steering damper will delay the point of wobble or tankslap but also slow down steering action and reaction. The problem is occurs more freqeuntly if the front wheel is permanently pointing away from the frame line so then there is a constant side force trying to correct and recorrect the slip angle. When the side force gets bigger with speed then the side force overcorrects and you get a wobble. This applies to any two wheeler. Other factors can effect wobble but it is caused by slip angle when there is no slip angle there is no wobble.
 
Yes Fullauto my mistake 100-90-19 now on the back on a WM3 rim and after a fast run today into Wales I can report, Much like Baz, that the weave is eliminated. Thanks Fixodent for your opinion on my frame/wheel alignment. I have been down every avenue on this one and the one thing that I can say is that my frame and wheels are in as good an alignment as is possible. It's interesting that Al-otment, who was banned from both this forum and the NOC, spent many hours improving his own and other Commandos alignment in the pursuit of good handling. He rides hard, and after his, like my, voyage down the 18" rim journey, came back to the 19" fold.
A few years ago, under the threat of 19" tyres becoming rare and following trend I tried 18" wheels, for me they don't work. In 41 years of ownership I've tried most things you can do with a road-going Commando. Some work some don't. If you weigh more than me you can probably get 18" wheels to work. I might add that todays blast into Wales was one of the best handling rides i've had in 41 years. (pretty cold though)
 
gripper said:
A few years ago, under the threat of 19" tyres becoming rare and following trend I tried 18" wheels, for me they don't work.
Click to expand...
Alright, I'm convinced. After running an Avon RoadRider 18" on the rear for the last two years, and, as the tread is now wearing somewhat square, the hinge is starting to rear its familiar ugly head. I guess I'll be re-lacing back to a 19". I now wish I would have hung onto that old rim...

Nathan
 
An interesting discussion for me, as I am going to get my wheels relaced next week and have fairly set on 19-WM3 for the front and 18-WM3 for the rear, with AM26s.

How is it that CNW and many others lace all theirs up with 18 inch rears, and we dont seem to hear any issues around their handling?

I have to think it isnt really an issue of the rim size but may be as Fixodent notes, alignment issues; or as Nater notes, his tires are getting square. (and I recall reading that front tire wear will cause the weave as well)
 
gortnipper said:
An interesting discussion for me, as I am going to get my wheels relaced next week and have fairly set on 19-WM3 for the front and 18-WM3 for the rear, with AM26s.

How is it that CNW and many others lace all theirs up with 18 inch rears, and we dont seem to hear any issues around their handling?

I have to think it isnt really an issue of the rim size but may be as Fixodent notes, alignment issues; or as Nater notes, his tires are getting square. (and I recall reading that front tire wear will cause the weave as well)
Click to expand...

If you want featherlight steering and none of the usual Norton handling quirks, go WM4 2.5 inch x 19 rims. You will be amazed at the difference. Why not fit the rim size that Avon says to use with Roadriders?
 
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