Anti wet sump valve sieze (2015)

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The forgetful/oil problem is not just limited to those with shutoff valves.
One of my friends has a lovely freshly rebuilt/restored 1956 Norton 99. It has a new oil pump but still wet sumps over the winter, so he drains the oil.
I got this email from him today.

"Started the 99 today. What did I forget?"

Glen
 
worntorn said:
The forgetful/oil problem is not just limited to those with shutoff valves.
One of my friends has a lovely freshly rebuilt/restored 1956 Norton 99. It has a new oil pump but still wet sumps over the winter, so he drains the oil.
I got this email from him today.

"Started the 99 today. What did I forget?"

Glen
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don't forget to put the oil plug back in....refill the oil tank from the sump and you are good to go.
Happy riding. :wink:
CNN
 
If it is, I refilled the oil tank when I put the motor back in the frame in December ( no sense running it without oil...) and when I started the bike a week ago the oil was still half way between the High and Low marks on the dipstick. I have not seen any imdication of oil starvation.

Greg
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true enough, but the fastest amount of wet sumping, should it occur, is right after a ride when the oil is hot and therefore thin
and able to more easily get past the timing cover pump and find its way into the crankcase bottom

it does take quite of oil accumulating in the crankcase to rise to the level of the main seal into the primary to then find its way
past that seal when the motor is started, but this does happen sometimes to cause blown seals and/or overfull primaries
 
CanukNortonNut said:
worntorn said:
The forgetful/oil problem is not just limited to those with shutoff valves.
One of my friends has a lovely freshly rebuilt/restored 1956 Norton 99. It has a new oil pump but still wet sumps over the winter, so he drains the oil.
I got this email from him today.

"Started the 99 today. What did I forget?"

Glen
Click to expand...
don't forget to put the oil plug back in....refill the oil tank from the sump and you are good to go.
Happy riding. :wink:
CNN
Click to expand...


I guess I left out one vital piece of info. He drains the oil when put away in the fall. Not good!
Not sure why he didn't pull plug wires, attach note or both.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
The forgetful/oil problem is not just limited to those with shutoff valves.
One of my friends has a lovely freshly rebuilt/restored 1956 Norton 99. It has a new oil pump but still wet sumps over the winter, so he drains the oil.
I got this email from him today.

"Started the 99 today. What did I forget?"

Glen
Click to expand...

That's a shame.

It's unusual not to look in the oil tank before a springtime start-up.
 
worntorn said:
CanukNortonNut said:
worntorn said:
The forgetful/oil problem is not just limited to those with shutoff valves.
One of my friends has a lovely freshly rebuilt/restored 1956 Norton 99. It has a new oil pump but still wet sumps over the winter, so he drains the oil.
I got this email from him today.

"Started the 99 today. What did I forget?"

Glen
Click to expand...
don't forget to put the oil plug back in....refill the oil tank from the sump and you are good to go.
Happy riding. :wink:
CNN
Click to expand...
I know just how he feels :shock: :(


I guess I left out one vital piece of info. He drains the oil when put away in the fall. Not good!
Not sure why he didn't pull plug wires, attach note or both.

Glen
Click to expand...
 
Peter R said:
Yet another horror story caused by an anti-wet sump valve. These things should come with a health warning.
Throw that thing away as far as you can.
Click to expand...

What a shame! While repositioning the oil supply hoses on my combat, the ASWV literally came apart into two pieces! It went in the trash, and I installed an oil pressure gauge instead to track the engine's health.
 
Details of a 'real' engineered valve that I have now used for years can be found at:
http://valvesandfittings.hylokusa.com/p ... 16&isUOM=1
It sits horizontal behind the RH z-plate (out of sight).
Shims at valve joint just achieve oil restraint with minimum crack pressure.
I still use an oil pressure gauge, just to be sure.
Ta.
 
can you explain the manuel valve with interlock please as I am not quite sure what and how this works. I have a Mick Hemmings anti wet sump valve fitted to my P11 and am now a bit concerned. I will also look into how and where to take off for an oil pressure gauge on the Atlas engine and my commando. Cheers Neil
 
To the best of my knowledge, the interlock valves available for purchase all use some type of elecrical switch such that the ignition is disabled when the oil supply valve is turned off.
There are some other various one off types people have made for their own bikes, one of which has a great long lever on the oil shutoff. With the lever sticking out ( oil off) the kickstart cannot be operated. Safe but perhaps a bit unattractive.
I modified a shut off valve so that the igniton key is needed to operate the valve. With the valve shut off, the key is held captive, so the bike cannot be started. It is quite small and unobtrusive.

Glen
 
Aw shoot Peel long gas valve lever was just mock up proof of concept and is replaced now by chrome toilet water supply valve with small oval chrome handle - covered up by screwed/glued unique piece of wood craved by Australian native originals given me by woman traveler so both lighter and less an eye sore to stuffy judges. No extra wire failure prone cluttering for my simpleton's Peel.

Anti wet sump valve sieze (2015)


Anti wet sump valve sieze (2015)
 
IronJohns sells a valve complete with switch to defeat the ignition circuit, about $125 last I saw goof-proof-anti-drain-valve-ironjohns-t14556.html. I made my own with a 1/2" PEX barbed ball valve and a micro-switch that defeats the ignition unless the oil line is on. Others use mechanical reminders.
 
Another report of an engine destroyed by a feed side ball and spring valve failing to open. I haven't seen the engine but a good friend had a look at it yesterday. Cases, crank , rods pistons , rings and barrels all destroyed. Not sure about the valve train and timing gear, but can't have been good for that. This one is a lovely Dreer 880.

Glen
 
you cal lead them to water but cant make them drink it. as long as some want to sell this POS there will be suckers to drink the kool aid.

worntorn said:
Another report of an engine destroyed by a feed side ball and spring valve failing to open. I haven't seen the engine but a good friend had a look at it yesterday. Cases, crank , rods pistons , rings and barrels all destroyed. Not sure about the valve train and timing gear, but can't have been good for that. This one is a lovely Dreer 880.

Glen
Click to expand...
 
Never heard of an engine destroyed by wet sumping, but I've heard of more than one destroyed by shutting off the oil feed to the pump. Never put anything between the oil tank and pump feed except a hose. Anything other is inviting trouble.
 
"Never heard of an engine destroyed by wet sumping"
Now you have

Quote from comnoz

"There is no question that with a crankcase with an over-abundance of oil will build enough pressure to blow a main seal when kicked over with a normal kick. If you were to push it through easy it would just push the oil back to the tank through the breather.I have made a habit of pushing the engine through one time easy before I drop my weight on the kickstarter- after bending a rod.My neighbor brought his Harley out of his garage a couple years back. It had been parked there for several years. He put a pair of jumper cables from his pickup to the battery and hit the starter button. It made a loud pop as the front of the crankcases parted and allowed several quarts of engine oil to run down his driveway. OOPS.

Jim
 
I would think seals and/or gaskets would give out before any metal parts. I'll take a blown seal over a total rebuild any day.
 
Jim, from your response I'm not sure if you read the post all the way thru. "Crankcases parted and oil on the driveway"
Re the spring and ball valves in the feed line, I think it is clear by now that this is a bad idea.
The manual valves with interlock are a completely different thing and have no reported problems, but you want to lump them all together, no matter what.
It's a bit like saying those 1972 Commando Combat engines blew up, so I would never buy any Commando.

Glen
 
The manual valves with interlock are a completely different thing
Click to expand...

No, they are not. It is still a blockage in the oil pump feed. I know, you are touting the ignition interlock method. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would restrict the feed when you can easily restrict the output. Not only that, but, once again personally, I don't much care for the clamps and wires clutter. As for bending a connecting rod, I find it hard to believe it can be bent by pulling. Anyway, do the uninitiated Nortneer a favor and let them know there is an alternative to a valve in the feed line for stopping wet sumping, as in the AMR modification.
 
I believe the problem Matt Rambo had with the AMR mod was that it only was effective on about 50% of the pumps he had sent out. Still worth a try though, since it does work for some and doesn't cost much.
No wires or added switches in my solution, but I have described it many times and included photos, so no need to do that one more time.
Again from your comments you must just jump over those posts after reading the first word or two and also ignore the photos.
I do read your posts through and agree that ordinary hose clamps or Jubilee clips aren't great to look at. Fortunately there are some very tidy solutions for small clamps.
With no switch, no wires and neat clamps, the valve is cosmetically a non event.


Glen
 
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