Another year for Lansdowne Dampers.

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john robert bould

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Sep 26, 2009
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Two crash's ,one Duncan the other Bob who race's a BSA rocket three , both get off's wrecked the forks..yet the dampers remained intact!...OK one rod was very slightly bent,and the tarmac track modified the top nut on the bsa...yes the rocket had re-entered "up-side-down" :!:

Bob "Rocket man" tested my first A75 set,,,in March he rang saying the triple's old fork patter was still there..but greatly reduced with the kit.

No amount of adjusting or oil waight change would totaly eliminate the patter...But he cured it...by changing the rear shock's!'

Three more Manx lads fitted the Lansdowne kit..and all reported a far better action.

Commando sale's have been steady, with sales just this week passing 140 sets, most sets going to the U.S.A..Ausse and New zealand.

Early in the year a few complained the action was harsh, turned out to be the oil passage was a tad to small when the oil got very cold,I have increased the porting area 50%, and changed the needle taper,the dampers are now less sensitive to oil viscosity change.

I have also changed the top nut material to 2011 aircraft grade alloy. [high tensile.for alloy that is]using the plate spanner provided ensures the hex stay's in good shape. i have tighted and slackened a nut twenty time's with no ill effect.

re-location in August delayed manufacture,,but things are getting back on track. Unclvins special sleeve kit and "built up "spring set is almost ready ..so watch out for his posting . Thats about it..
.Chow for now. John Lansdowne Eng
 
John,
You are playing with motorbikes instead of renovating HER kitchen!?, you enjoy living dangerously don't you?

Vince
 
Vinnie ....Yep! it's a steady return to the work shop :lol: Iv'e got to.......it's comming winter and the Orders are increasing ..
 
Any feedback on the crashing reasons? I collect these reports for my own reference. Better actions than factory Roadholders, a number of ways to do that.

Roadholders can be made to never patter or feel harsh. The original version of Greg's kit allows variable progressive dampening, very little for pebbles- ripples texture near neutral sag but more as travel increases. I get patter in my SV's forks with the Race Tech cartridge emulators inside. I got patter in Ninja hi end real cartridge forks. Their trouble range was run into on fairly good pavement on good powered leans, where the scale of motions is under ~1.5" total. Too dampened apparently in the small range where fast fork action is needed w/o much resistance or delay to follow surface texture. It can get so bad so fast it can cause chassis-tire upset into splats. Only way I could ride pass that was to lift front out of traction, which is terrorizing to me on moderns or un-tamed isolastics
antics, so know not to press em like I like.

While chewing on my comments, might re-consider what happens to forks length when bike is thrown into a turn and conceive ways to control dampening in that condition. If your needle is one way acting only, may be inherent flaw in cartridge forks vs old school plunger in a tube. Compression and rebound adjustment is definitely in right direction as you and your kit users know, but may not be the best there is if only speed sensitive and not fork length adaptive too.
 
Yes Duncans crash was a new rubber mix ,that proved to hard, Plus going to fast,,have you seen the lean angle's he get's to? The other crash ..Bsa rocket..again to fast...these guys are not tip toeing about...J. Mc Williams on the Lansdowne equiped manx. was the 4th fasted lap on the day at Goodwood...So when you next chuck you Commando into a tight bend at 120 plus...and your knee is on the deck...just be carefull...If you have any doubts about the Lansdowne kits...Ask John Dunn, He's the Norton Owners Commando Tec adviser...Is words "Fantastic" or ask our beloved LAB if he's happy ? I have Never claimed these are the best available.....But for the cost of a week end away i recon they are good value....I will be hearing from you again no doubt and hopefully others who are using the kits
hobot said:
Any feedback on the crashing reasons? I collect these reports for my own reference. Better actions than factory Roadholders, a number of ways to do that.

Roadholders can be made to never patter or feel harsh. The original version of Greg's kit allows variable progressive dampening, very little for pebbles- ripples texture near neutral sag but more as travel increases. I get patter in my SV's forks with the Race Tech cartridge emulators inside. I got patter in Ninja hi end real cartridge forks. Their trouble range was run into on fairly good pavement on good powered leans, where the scale of motions is under ~1.5" total. Too dampened apparently in the small range where fast fork action is needed w/o much resistance or delay to follow surface texture. It can get so bad so fast it can cause chassis-tire upset into splats. Only way I could ride pass that was to lift front out of traction, which is terrorizing to me on moderns or un-tamed isolastics
antics, so know not to press em like I like.

While chewing on my comments, might re-consider what happens to forks length when bike is thrown into a turn and conceive ways to control dampening in that condition. If your needle is one way acting only, may be inherent flaw in cartridge forks vs old school plunger in a tube. Compression and rebound adjustment is definitely in right direction as you and your kit users know, but may not be the best there is if only speed sensitive and not fork length adaptive too.
Click to expand...
 
Good news about the improvements. I still need to grab a set from you come late winter, early spring.
 
It highest regards and serious respect to your innovative kit and the brave racers,
I NEVER EVER press on tires new or old w/o reserves UNTIL I KNOW EXACTLY what their tolerance is in the conditions, temp, humidity, road slope etc. So as fast as I can I ride right into/past tire grip front and rear, in places I can recover, so no further surprises when tires let go - then only when I want em too -just then, not before. Its makes me squeal louder than the tire when one first lets go mind ya, as all feels fine right up to then, but then I know limits and look forward to it > on my terms.

Second point I take serious and can judge bike/pilot by, if there is ANY room in leans to put a knee out from full tank compression, then I ain't a bit impressed and feel sorry for what is taken as impressive handling/road holding. I am in awe of racers who risk life, limb and bikes, on such corner cripples though. I have to put my foot on rear axle to get lean room enough on moderns, taller Ms Peel I can exceed moderns and still keep knee close to tank, but don't think I can on next Peel taller yet, so may need rear rear sets. I only get over that far to supermotrad fish tail a turn or to set up for a hi side - that if not launched from a full low side - does what ya see it do to everyone else s bike but my Ms. Peel.

There is an in-between state that can extend tire traction and aim when reaching normal limits of lean and grip, flip into straight steering, which really twists up chassis in the transition, but relieves it once tire following turn path again rather than aiming off yonder the wrong way around. When I hear of set of forks and chassis that can absorb that level loads and speed of vibration I will definitely poop in my pants while grabbing wallet to buy it. I'm not putting you kit down,
I'm fascinated by it and taking in every report of its improvement, so really can't wait to pay you for your brand of crazy ingeniousness, and see where the tires fall in my own testing survival.


BUT BUT BUT, forks extend in powered corners not compress and with grip and power enough flat lift out of traction of even contact with surface, so forks become a non issue to me except to launch off of and catch and take in the landings w/o bother and of course brake for hazards.
 
BTW, I don't feel the need to tuck down till 120 mph on Ms Peel's past power but there ain't a place here I felt safe to touch pegs at 120+, but did at 90 topping out in 2nd in 45 mph marked turns. There is a old motto about never letting bike get ahead of you, If i can't keep accelerating hard into-through-out of turns, then I tend to loose control just like everyone else. That's main reason for blown big block, cornering excesses not boring bee line sight seeing touring, fun as that is, I get more G's and less wheelie restriction leaned. Even in loosest conditons there are still huge spikes of traction to grab, but it becomes more like orbiting space craft that uses instant brusts to directional rockets to guide the main thruster. Helps to have a rubber band chassis but not swing arm or forks.

I wan to put a vibration sensor on forks to measure the differences felt.
 
Dear Hobit, when you work out the fork measuring equipment/ sensor please show me how it works...i have a few ideas...but best to let the racers report back.
hobot said:
BTW, I don't feel the need to tuck down till 120 mph on Ms Peel's past power but there ain't a place here I felt safe to touch pegs at 120+, but did at 90 topping out in 2nd in 45 mph marked turns. There is a old motto about never letting bike get ahead of you, If i can't keep accelerating hard into-through-out of turns, then I tend to loose control just like everyone else. That's main reason for blown big block, cornering excesses not boring bee line sight seeing touring, fun as that is, I get more G's and less wheelie restriction leaned. Even in loosest conditons there are still huge spikes of traction to grab, but it becomes more like orbiting space craft that uses instant brusts to directional rockets to guide the main thruster. Helps to have a rubber band chassis but not swing arm or forks.

I wan to put a vibration sensor on forks to measure the differences felt.
Click to expand...
 
It took months of crashing on almost every attempt to make it to tarmac, then on hard top. to discover Commando hinged handling ^^following^^ sports bikes that had passed me into sweepers. Made me Very depressed I'd gotten back into cycles with a piece of crap antique quaint looking corner cripple, especially after what I learned to do at corner school I got kicked out of. Then Bob Davis in AU and Bob Patton in US shared their wisdom with me. Davis on Roadholders and Patton on rear linked isolastic physics. Handling results in Ms Peel amazed me, but also as amazingly, separated all the influences from each other. It became easy to feel what was doing what. Not many get an erection talking about how smooth their Cdo is but that tops my list of Ms Peels qualities. Handling though is what saves lives, wins races and allows secure repeatable road orgasms.

Completely changed my concept of what's possible and also made me focus on all the harmonics inter-reacting. I don't know yet what to monitor nor how too.
I just know that the trails bikes, MX bikes and dedicated sport bike forks all got scary crazy, yet in same places Ms Peel always had more to give, just I couldn't take any more G's and speed in public places. These modern bikes all had the cartridge type forks. I don't have much respect for anymore. I did find that depending on the type of bike/engine configuration, they either fought back trying to force or hold them down, or fought back trying lift em back up in time. Ms Peel became completely Neutral no fight no matter what angle set, nor resistance to change leans or cross rough road surfaces on Roadholders.

Also another weird thing is other bikes loosing grip also changed lean angles, not Peel she'd just slide outward at same angle, only effort was to hold forks enough the slide/skips didn't change steering angle. To get Peel to slide took going in way harder than race like bikes could handle, so a leap of faith to press beyond what I'd thought possible. It took these almost slide states to show up the only thing that bothers me in Peel's Roadholders, a blurring of view with front to rear vibration at axle. I could not feel this turning nor did it affect handling extremes but interfered with my observations of fork action. Only thing I could find to account for it is slack in bushes top and bottom, maybe 1/16" at tire patch.

My fear is this could harmonize with tire hysteria/grip unexpectedly. My feeling is Peel's Roadholders+brace now vibrate above frequency the tire patch is sensitive too. Her chassis below tire harmonic sensitivity of tire squeal.

My fear is I was pressing so hard there was not much front traction needed, so might spill me on lessor speed/power but same lean and steering angle when hitting some ripples. This happens to me on THE Grit, I can go real slow or I can go really hot, but in between is murderous for sudden let goes. You have made me more aware of the rebound issue, so maybe one leg with you kit and one leg Greg's kit plus your bush restore kit may be the ultimate road holding forks.

BTW I love life and respect it in all others, so I never press another rider, no neck and neck dangerous contests for me like I see the Squids doing. Peel had great power and such supreme handling I could wait till they committed to a line then zing past them on inside or outside like there were parking lot cones.
It takes both chassis and forks working together to pull it off. This is what I think may be confusing the cycle world, they splash so many influences together at once its hard to tell what component is doing the dirty deed. If I snap a whip its the tip that cracks but its the handle doing the whipping. On Peel I can feel the effects of air vortexes tugging on forks when tire is very light on surface. Looking forward to enough time/money to feel your efforts in Peel's Roadholders.
 
Hob,
I only asked how the harmonic's of Standard and Cartridge equiped forks where to be measured and compaired.plus more importly what we gleen from this info. two Manx racers with the kits installed have totaly differant settings..Duncans are very taught on the compression...others very little resistance....But they do use dry and wet settings and very qickly adjusted..Something the Stock ones {without swapping the oil} could never give.
Regards J Lansdowne Eng
 
john robert bould said:
Early in the year a few complained the action was harsh, turned out to be the oil passage was a tad to small when the oil got very cold,I have increased the porting area 50%, and changed the needle taper,the dampers are now less sensitive to oil viscosity change.
Click to expand...
Are these updates applicable/do-able on my current set of Lansdowne Dampers? And if so, will you offer simple instructions on how to attain these results?
 
John, I just don't know what physics matters or if its measurable except how fast I tend to crash on or off road. I stopped exploring THE Gravel paths here on my stock Combat and spiffed up suspension SV650 because it hurts my hands/wrists,elbows from the shocks transmitted, which also tend to make front tire go off on its own.

I crave exploring on Peels forks and since I am looking spirit for hwy travel, main reason to loose mass is to play on the trials/MX/horse paths and creek beds and serious ravines with debris in them. One of my surprises was what ever I did to improve security on THE G, also improved it on tarmac. When I discovered the SuperMotard classes, dirt bikes with street tires, I about pooped in pants that it backed up my own findings. I only got ~5 yr - 30K miles this life time to go by.
~10K on Commando's 20K on SV, only because SV was less injured to recover than the Nortons. My basic wonder if that Peel behaves so much better than every thing else I have no desire to ever ride again if not on a Commando, as rest just don't deliver the level of performance/nice sensations to be worth risking everything for so little. Hope your forks get refined to point other crave it as much as I do mine.
 
pvisseriii said:
john robert bould said:
Early in the year a few complained the action was harsh, turned out to be the oil passage was a tad to small when the oil got very cold,I have increased the porting area 50%, and changed the needle taper,the dampers are now less sensitive to oil viscosity change.


Greetings,,from you question are yours a "bit" harsh in the compression with SAE 5 weight and two turns out? if so i will do the mod myself ..free of charge. simply post the compresson side back this winter and i will return it with the small mods...If you have,and wish to do the job . a lathe.or know someone who can do the work i will send the details its no problem for a good man.
Click to expand...
Are these updates applicable/do-able on my current set of Lansdowne Dampers? And if so, will you offer simple instructions on how to attain these results?
Click to expand...
 
Hobit. You allways make me smile, Creek beds and serious ravines? I would guess you are the only guy in the world that seeks out these ON A COMMANDO!! Most rides over here stick to the tarmac... if its measurable except how fast I tend to crash on or off road. I stopped exploring THE Gravel paths here on my stock Combat and spiffed up suspension SV650 because it hurts my hands/wrists,elbows from the shocks transmitted, which also tend to make front tire go off on its own.

I crave exploring on Peels forks and since I am looking spirit for hwy travel, main reason to loose mass is to play on the trials/MX/horse paths and creek beds and serious ravines with debris in them. One of my surprises was what ever I did to improve security on THE G, also improved it on tarmac. When I discovered the SuperMotard classes, dirt bikes with street tires, I about pooped in pants that it backed up my own findings. I only got ~5 yr - 30K miles this life time to go by.
~10K on Commando's 20K on SV, only because SV was less injured to recover than the Nortons. My basic wonder if that Peel behaves so much better than every thing else I have no desire to ever ride again if not on a Commando, as rest just don't deliver the level of performance/nice sensations to be worth risking everything for so little. Hope your forks get refined to point other crave it as much as I do mine.[/quote]
 
I am more flabbergasted than anyone else. I got anus puckers just to approach the slopes of ravine edges to view a way down, 2-4 stories below. Then found even 2" higher front stance would hi center on edge enough to delay the acceleration needed to launch out a bit to have some steering effect and momentum enough to climb back up far wall, standing on pegs full upright with the headlight shell on my belt buckle and fender about in my face. My motto -"Throw yourself at the ground and miss" is no metphor.

This occurred when I'd gotten last front link welded up at tool/die shop in the woods and they were hot to trot to try their expensive trials bikes so offered me a 350 RD dirt bike or ATV so not to be impolite leaving me behind on my heavy big twin. I almost flew off the RD crossing brushy ground it bounced so bad and tittered to sides by the rebounds. I got a much nicer smooth ride on Peel with more power to bash through stuff and no side/side skip outs, just lacked the traction of full off road knobbies they had. When I left there I headed out to the deady hwy twisties and practiced low-hi side flings going into 10 mph blinds 50-60 mph.

Peel is so good on tarmac like above, I don't get the adrenialin shakes, so to get my climax before shutting down > I leap Peel off our 4' high culvert into gravel/rock shelf/root crossed spring branch and try to climb out on 40' mud/wet grass slope and not fall down. Its the only time I get athletic stress on Peel.
Ice storm has left logs across it now, but hesitate to burn them till I get a chance to try to cross em and not fall down. They end in a steep hill side on far side. I'd need full knobbies to do the over head turn arounds like hill climbers do.
Triangulated crash bars are vital part of Peel handling devices.

Another year for Lansdowne Dampers.

Another year for Lansdowne Dampers.

Another year for Lansdowne Dampers.

Another year for Lansdowne Dampers.
 
john robert bould said:
pvisseriii said:
john robert bould said:
Early in the year a few complained the action was harsh, turned out to be the oil passage was a tad to small when the oil got very cold,I have increased the porting area 50%, and changed the needle taper,the dampers are now less sensitive to oil viscosity change.


Greetings,,from you question are yours a "bit" harsh in the compression with SAE 5 weight and two turns out? if so i will do the mod myself ..free of charge. simply post the compresson side back this winter and i will return it with the small mods...If you have,and wish to do the job . a lathe.or know someone who can do the work i will send the details its no problem for a good man.
Click to expand...
Are these updates applicable/do-able on my current set of Lansdowne Dampers? And if so, will you offer simple instructions on how to attain these results?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Your answer is a little unclear. Am i to read between the lines? Is no answer the answer?
 
O.k I emailed John with this question and did not get a reply!
So what is the best way to get a set of Lansdowne Dampers here in the states ( Rhode Island),
I do not see any way of ordering them and paying in US $ like with a credit card?
Is there a web site that I am missing?
Thank You
Bruce MacGregor
 
Bruce MacGregor said:
O.k I emailed John with this question and did not get a reply!
So what is the best way to get a set of Lansdowne Dampers here in the states ( Rhode Island),
I do not see any way of ordering them and paying in US $ like with a credit card?
Is there a web site that I am missing?
Click to expand...

You could try sending a PM to John? Although I expect he will get in contact with you now. There's no Lansdowne website (as far as I know?) but you should be able to order the kit directly from John and pay using PayPal.
 
Les.
I emailed Bruce back. its still in my "sent" messages,
If you read this Bruce there is no problem ordering a set. I have had quite a few claiming " No responce" to requests...its a wonder how billions of emails arrive the other side of the planet! my Email is jrb19502005@ yahoo.co.uk

Best Regards

John Lansdowne Eng
 
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