Another Kegler S/Arm Mod Thread

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Cowboy Don

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Been chasing some rear end wobble on my 71 for the last couple weeks. Am thinking now the Kegler mod might help and have read s#^@loads of threads lately. All seems good and straightforward, and even if it doesn't solve my exact problem, it certainly isn't going to hurt.

An interesting question I haven't seen asked here though, once you've drilled the cradle, what's to stop the oil from leaking out? I would assume I'd use some sort of Loctite sealant on th ID of the clamps to help with that.

I like the idea of using the later style spindles with the slots machined out, and line up the Kegler clamps to suit, as done on this link http://www.doov.com/apps/nortoncompanio ... s&Itemid=8
I believe Swooshdave has done this as well.
I checked out the spindles on Oldbritts, they do even the early spindles with the slots, and holy crap! they're $135! A quick search with Norvil and they're only about $40, RGM about the same, roughly converted from pounds stirling. I know Oldbritts would have a damn good reason for the price difference, over the years their products have been excellent and well thought out. Anyone know the specifics of their spindles compared to others? I will most like email them and ask.

This turns what would be a cheap diagnostic/mod into a bit of an investment. But I don't want to add the clamps now, only to have to reposition them at a later date when I can afford the slotted spindle.
 
Keeping the oil in is overrated! Really you are trying more to keep dirt and water out. The bushings soak up oil and if you move to the felt wicks and plug ends you have those to help as well.

I will now step aside and try to avoid the stones thrown by all who do not agree with the above!
 
There is no logic for a motorcycle over 250 cc but for pure wasteful luxury joy rides and even less for a big ole clunker like a Commando. To save my moola I had the spindle flats notched out by a machinist, making sure that the collar bolts would land on them. Depending on the wear inside an over size spindle is available like I used to recover my '72 special. Being a Commando also implies where some symptom is sensed, the source can be at the other end. So push-pull the rear tire rim to see if the front iso moves over much. Of course there are ancient and plentiful tales of new tires solving annoying weaval/wobbles. New tires stopped my factory Combat with collars from serious fork slapping to let go of bars an instant to deal with helmet or jacket zipper and also the L drift tendency. Definitely paint over or somehow seal the collars and bolts as mine were only gun blued finish and rusted pretty darn quick in my conditions.
BTW the spindle is very hard on its surface but the milling machine took it off by tiny series of bites no problemo.

I've had one mysterious wobble in interval with smooth sailing in between, nothing found loose or worn in the iso's or the swing arm or rear wheel, but happened to be in my primary and was playing with the triplex tension by tugging on it to occillate chain and noticed it was the same freq. as on road wobble, hmm. Turned out the gear box sleeve bushes were worn, so clutch basket also wobbled and was tugging on the drive chain tension which tugged on the isolastics. Solution was inside gear box/primary.
 
Cowboy Don said:
I believe Swooshdave has done this as well.
Click to expand...

not-another-spindle-thread-t5978.html

I checked out the spindles on Oldbritts, they do even the early spindles with the slots, and holy crap! they're $135! A quick search with Norvil and they're only about $40, RGM about the same, roughly converted from pounds stirling. I know Oldbritts would have a damn good reason for the price difference, over the years their products have been excellent and well thought out. Anyone know the specifics of their spindles compared to others? I will most like email them and ask.

This turns what would be a cheap diagnostic/mod into a bit of an investment. But I don't want to add the clamps now, only to have to reposition them at a later date when I can afford the slotted spindle.
Click to expand...

Did you see how much a spindle was from an Australian supplier?
 
swooshdave said:
Did you see how much a spindle was from an Australian supplier?
Click to expand...

Would be about the same as if I bought them from RGM or other suppliers overseas. I usually buy most of my standard parts from a local shop here as they make an effort to keep stuff in stock.
But Oldbritts is Oldbritts, sold only by Oldbritts. I haven't found anyone else offering the earlier spindles with the later style slots cut. Know of anyone?
 
I paid $98NZ for my swing arm spindle from British Spares in NZ. That's pretty cheap in $AU. It had flats machined. Might be worth investigating.
 
Cowboy Don said:
But Oldbritts is Oldbritts, sold only by Oldbritts. I haven't found anyone else offering the earlier spindles with the later style slots cut. Know of anyone?
Click to expand...

Not true. Old Britts uses mainly Andover parts.

I asked Ella and she just said something about how the latest batch cost more. But I don't understand a doubling in price. Maybe we can get Joe to comment.
 
swooshdave said:
Cowboy Don said:
But Oldbritts is Oldbritts, sold only by Oldbritts. I haven't found anyone else offering the earlier spindles with the later style slots cut. Know of anyone?
Click to expand...

Not true. Old Britts uses mainly Andover parts.

I asked Ella and she just said something about how the latest batch cost more. But I don't understand a doubling in price. Maybe we can get Joe to comment.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was unclear with my statement there. I was running on the assumption the early model spindles with the late model slots that Oldbritts is selling was one of their own products. I know the majority of what they sell is Andover Norton, but OB have an ever growing selection of their own design and manufacture. My mistake.
So, to make another assumption (we'll see how this one makes me look), Andover is selling all spindles with the slots.
 
1. Spindle price:
With our batch sizes often well in excess of our current needs in order to keep the prices down, we order of some less popular parts- like the spindles- probably for two or three years demand. When we re-order, the price for labour and materials has often risen considerably, and so must the retail price.

Exchange rates may also play a role- we invoice in Pounds, Old Britts in $US.

2. Slots in spindles:
As we re-manufacture subframes for all Commandos with the option of the Mk3 cotters to fix the s/arm spindle, all our spindles have the slots for that option machined in, irrespective if they had them originally (as the Mk3) or not (as all previous types).
Even our Indian fans (pirating is their form of flattery....) machine these slots in, though not quite in the correct position, but then they aren't too particular about materials, finish, and dimensions anyway! See http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/Pirate%20Parts.htm

Joe/Andover Norton
 
Thanks for clearing it up ZFD. So it's safe to say if I order a spindle from any of the reputable dealers that carry your brand, I'll be getting the slots?
 
Don,
Depends on whom you call "reputable dealers"! We have a lot of dealers in our list- which and whom I took on with the company- who buy some goods off us and many goods from other sources, goods I would decline to sell to my retail customers due to quality and, in some cases, safety issues.

With Old Britts I am certain you will be getting the real deal. With a lot of other "Norton Specialists" I can bet virtually any sum you care to mention they will sell you pirate parts whenver possible, sometimes in packaging imitating our labels, but with a slightly different text, or even IN our packaging which is easy to copy, because they can make much more money that way.

I have started to monitor who buys what from us, and I could name prominent "Norton Experts" who have not bought a single stanchion, big end bolt etc off us in over a year, so your guess is as good as mine where their merchandize comes from, and whether you want to use it in your rebuild.

We have started to mark our stanchions, brake plates, fork sliders etc to distinguish them from the sorry imitations out there, but in many cases this is either impossible or not financially viable.
 
Keith1069 said:
With a lot of other "Norton Specialists" I can bet virtually any sum you care to mention they will sell you pirate parts whenver possible, sometimes in packaging imitating our labels, but with a slightly different text, or even IN our packaging which is easy to copy, because they can make much more money that way.
Click to expand...
Now that is starting to get worrying. To sell pattern parts at lower prices and described as such is OK, buyer beware etc........but to pirate the packaging is Fraud! There is no other word for it. Now since both of the major UK Norton dealers clearly separate pattern from AN parts in their price lists is one or are both of these playing dirty with us? That is not on and they need to be persuaded along legal lines.
Click to expand...

I think we've already been down this road?

The official AN stance appears to be that if a person finds they've been sold pirate parts (or at least parts purporting to be "Genuine Factory" items which are not in fact genuine Andover Norton "factory" parts) then AN will be delighted to sell that person the genuine AN parts. I believe one major Commando parts supplier is legally within his rights to sell "Genuine Commando" parts under his/their own very similar "Factory" brand label however AN appears to have an apparent "moral problem" about taking any action whatsoever against known pirate parts suppliers because that action could result in financial hardship for those pirate traders!
blown-con-rod-t11832-15.html#p136404
 
LAB,

I have inherited a history with the company, a history of weákness and of giving way to dealers for whom I, personally, have no time at all. The company was dependent on certain dealers for its survival for most of its existence. I warned, even when Norton Motors Ltd distributed Commando spares (1980s), that this was not a healthy state of affairs.

Since I aquired the company five years ago I have worked towards ending this unhealthy state. We can now live without the custom of certain dealers we were dependant on five years ago, and rest asured certain long-established customs and habits will be abolished shortly, and many already have.

I can now afford to terminate any dealer I find sells pirate stuff with our labels. The downside is- we don't buy from dealers, you do. Should you find you have been sold pattern stuff with our labels in the bag I will be happy to look into it and, if I can prove it beyond doubt, to send the dealer in question a termination letter and to take him off our dealer/distributor list.

I have done it some months ago with one American dealer, and I have no qualms to do it with any other dealer.

Joe Seifert
 
I enjoy doing business with Old Britts, and the content of this thread is convincing me that the pleasure has more rewards than just good service. Are there other vendors that inspire the same level of confidence? Sadly as more and more "pirate" parts end up on bikes, even buying "vintage" parts that are used is no gaurantee of authenticity. I suspect this happens often enough to provoke some of the venom seen on this forum.

Russ
 
Randy Baxter Cycles will talk to ya straight and informative. TC too, if ya can catch him. Marino at M.A.P. is pretty helpful to take some time for us. Fair Spare's helped me figure out the Alas gearbox shell was way to go over double expensive Commando version. Too many I used to deal with on Peel were smaller vendors now gone form the world. I forget the owners names but got lots of hand holding early on from British Spares in NZ. Helps to shop around the world with the currency exchange rates giving extra bargain at times. Steve Maney will talk to ya if you have reasonable knowledge not to steal his time catching ya up to speed. Handfulls of privateers of course besides the famous ones that post here. When ever I get in a bind I start going done my list of vendors to renew relations, some remembering me as "Easy Money"
 
ZFD said:
I can now afford to terminate any dealer I find sells pirate stuff with our labels. The downside is- we don't buy from dealers, you do.
Click to expand...

ZFD,
Indeed, but the sad fact is, 99.9% of people will simply be unaware of any of this, and will think they have bought low quality or faulty "genuine factory" items and not something other than genuine parts (as a recent thread concerning a certain gearbox cover bears testament to) however, this apparent change of AN policy is mildly encouraging, and does seem to go some small way towards raising the level of confidence that (for me, at least) hit rock bottom after reading your comments of 15 Dec. 2011.
 
LAB,
A question of not upsetting an applecart that I inherited totally out of balance... and also a question of not being had for libel. If I have clear, unquestionable evidence of rogue dealings with our labels attached to Indian, Chinese, or English chickenshed manufacture spares I am happy to sink the dealer in question, but only then. You know as well as I do who sells pattern stuff and who does not, and whoever can read between my lines, or even just read the experiences of the forum members, should have a pretty good idea what vendors are trustworthy and what aren't. Then again, where price is the overruling criterion- as seems to be the case with parts of this forum- the buyer must know he gets what he pays for.

The English legal system is not known for its efficiency or for its quest for the truth, but seems to favour people who have loads of time and money to prolong a legal battle until the other side gives up. The fight of two dealers about a previously non-existing, unregistered trademark comes to mind. Loads of money, and many years, were spent in a fight that ended in a draw. In my understanding of trademarks, the case was clearly in favour of the one party that had actively been using it for many years until the other party barged in with questionable evidence in its favour. I am ashamed to say a previous owner of Andover Norton provided that fake evidence.

When I have clear proof for cheating with our labels I make the decision to stop supplying the dealer, but I will not get involved in legal warfare.

Sorry if your confidence in me hit rock bottom. Certain things I do not want to say in public. Rest asured we try to help the loyal dealers but don't exactly go into overdrive for the others.

I have the long-term strategy- that is bearing fruit already- to reduce the market share of the pirates.

Remember Andover Norton is a family-owned company and our plans are long-term, not short-term. "Shareholder value" or the ratio of "return on investment" is not my family's prime concern.
 
Factory parts? Genuine parts? Patern parts? Near by a NEW firm with muti-million pound investment produce's Bentley Car parts, i wonder if the packets say " Genuine Bentley" ? When Norton "stopped" producing bikes and old stock was used up...That was the end of "Genuine parts" all the rest from then on are pattern. Fullauto doe's not claim to produce "Genuine head's" even with their skill :!:
 
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