Another Great job by Andover Norton!

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Can these guys make ANYTHING that actually works or fits on a Commando?

The latest: I ordered a new steering lock/keys. When you lock the steering with the new AN lockset, you cannot REMOVE the key from the lock. You can only remove the key when it's unlocked. SO...if you lock the steering to make it a little harder to steal the bike, you have to leave the key in the lock...

What are these guys smokin'? I have yet to buy one single replacement AN part that fit/worked without some sort of sanding/filing/cutting/etc.
 
Do you do stand up comedy when you aren't working on your bike? That is the funniest joke I have heard in a long time! uh....You are joking? Right?
 
Hello everybody. This is the reason I have not bought another Commando to do up, fed up with getting parts that don't fit.
I have a theory! My workplace, with a new manager, is now on a Health & safety drive. It is taking my & others time away from production, & infuriating me in particular. Therefore, nobody in Britain has time, or is too expensive to manufacture.
So, we are having to send abroad to have anything made.
Please note, I have typed this with Safety glasses & toe'tecters on, & will now have to go to a meeting & write a report & log the minutes of the meeting. Publish them on an internal web site & bring it up at the next meeting.
 
MexicoMike said:
Can these guys make ANYTHING that actually works or fits on a Commando?

The latest: I ordered a new steering lock/keys. When you lock the steering with the new AN lockset, you cannot REMOVE the key from the lock. You can only remove the key when it's unlocked. SO...if you lock the steering to make it a little harder to steal the bike, you have to leave the key in the lock...

What are these guys smokin'? I have yet to buy one single replacement AN part that fit/worked without some sort of sanding/filing/cutting/etc.

I'm with Mex on this crap. Mate, get mad and get even. Write them a nastygram and threaten to involve UK consumer affairs. There are laws to protect the public from un-merchantisable goods. It's AN's responsibility to ensure the products they sell fit and work. Clearly they do not check the parts they out source. The Vincent Owners Club did the smart thing and set up their own parts company and scrutinise the stuff they get made. Sure stuff is not cheap but it fits and works...or so I am lead to believe.

Mick
 
I had to use a dremel tool to cut out the area to fit the tail light bulb to the bracket on one of their 750 tail lights. It wasn't even a close fit out of the package. I was embarrassed for them. They must have stuff sourced to china.
 
britbike220 said:
I had to use a dremel tool to cut out the area to fit the tail light bulb to the bracket on one of their 750 tail lights. It wasn't even a close fit out of the package. I was embarrassed for them. They must have stuff sourced to china.

So did I, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I was fitting a repro tail light and wasn't about to place the blame on the fairing.

Do you guys really think they didn't have "fitters" at the factory?

Two things: One, you want cheap parts and will bitch when they ware "too" expensive. And second, you have to remember that you are fitting parts to used bikes, so the dimensions have changed due to wear.

Cheap, fast or right. Pick one.
 
I guess I want my parts right seeing as how I go for cheap and fast with my women.
 
think the only thing I had on my bike that was crazy were some passenger peg mounts. I bought 2 'new' ones, and one was at least a quarter of an inch longer if not more.
 
Add me to the list.

Front fender and two fender stays. Holes would not line up. Bent, pulled, pushed, bent, had to redrill.

But i bought the pre-drilled?
 
"Do you guys really think they didn't have "fitters" at the factory?"

I'm not talking about items like body-parts that one would expect some fiddling may be needed. I'm talking about mechanical parts that don't fit and/or don't work at all. A lock that you can't remove the key from when it's locked is pretty much my personal limit as far as quality control/design is concerned. AN doesn't seem to have the machining ability that was common in the rest of the world by the early 20th century. They seem to have gone back to the late 17th/early 18th century when products were hand-made and parts were not interchangeable. I thought we were long past that. Probably 2/3 of the mechanical AN parts I have purchased did not fit initially and many never worked at all. I'm talking about things as simple as machine screws as well as more "complex" items.
 
swooshdave said:
So did I, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I was fitting a repro tail light and wasn't about to place the blame on the fairing.

Two things: One, you want cheap parts and will bitch when they ware "too" expensive. And second, you have to remember that you are fitting parts to used bikes, so the dimensions have changed due to wear.

Cheap, fast or right. Pick one.

Dave, I'd gladly pay the price for parts I know are going to be right and do when I know they are right, but anymore it's a crap shoot what you'll have to try and make work vs what you pay. It's the principle that I pay and really not cheap for parts that aren't even close to speck. I can't remember what my tail light cost, but all said and done it wasn't really that cheap except for quality and you are right it wasn't a big deal, just shouldn't of had to cut it up to make it work.
 
I'll tell you why I get so steamed up by crap aftermarket parts. I run an automotive test lab. This includes a precison engineering facility with a full suite of calibrated instrumentation. We have international accreditation and specialise in dyno testing of brake systems and parts. I've seen some results that would make you puke.

A bit of history - When the Norton factory was producing bikes, they put out supply contracts with drawings and specifications and makers would have to submit samples. Those accepted would then be subject to QC production inspections. As AN no longer has an assembly plant, the cheap option for them is to get stuff made to pattern. I doubt if original drawings even exist anymore. Patterns are doubious is they come from alternative sources, i.e. a worn part is not good as pattern.
AN should employ QC inspectors to measure and fit parts to ensure correct dimensional, material and functional conformance to the OEM specifcation. But that means employing someone! Nah, just send a pattern to India or China and take the lowest quote. Rule Britannia and get me a side order of pappadums.

AN has gone down the sewer just like 90% of the original British car industry - lack of vision, investment and pride. Thats why Germany now owns half of the British car industry and is the foremost Western industrialised nation because they have standards and a reputation they won't sell out. Please BMW, buy out AN.

I'd cheerfully pay twice as much for a quality part than of a no-brand item if I could rely on it working properly and lasting twice as long. If AN could grasp that simple concept they might actually see a profitable business!

Mick
 
"I'd cheerfully pay twice as much for a quality part than of a no-brand item if I could rely on it working properly"

Amen!

I sent a message to Old Britts, where I buy all my parts, suggesting they discuss this issue with their supplier/AN. I realize that OB cannot check every item they stock, nor should they have to. But I'm hoping they at least make it known that there is an issue with the poor AN quality control.

OB readily and immediately will make any issue right - whether that's a refund or replacement - so please do NOT take my message as any sort of complaint about them. Ella/Fred are superb to deal with.
 
ML said:
A bit of history - When the Norton factory was producing bikes, they put out supply contracts with drawings and specifications and makers would have to submit samples. Those accepted would then be subject to QC production inspections. As AN no longer has an assembly plant, the cheap option for them is to get stuff made to pattern. I doubt if original drawings even exist anymore. Patterns are doubious is they come from alternative sources, i.e. a worn part is not good as pattern.
AN should employ QC inspectors to measure and fit parts to ensure correct dimensional, material and functional conformance to the OEM specifcation. But that means employing someone! Nah, just send a pattern to India or China and take the lowest quote. Rule Britannia and get me a side order of pappadums.

AN has gone down the sewer just like 90% of the original British car industry - lack of vision, investment and pride. Thats why Germany now owns half of the British car industry and is the foremost Western industrialised nation because they have standards and a reputation they won't sell out. Please BMW, buy out AN.
Mick

Mick,

1. Andover Norton has all the factory drawings and original tooling;

2. If Mexico Mike took the trouble to put his steering lock far enough down the top yoke he'd see there is nothing wrong with it- provided he bought the AN original, not an Indian or Chinese copy. AN source the steering locks from the original suppliers who supplied them in Commando production days. I have yet to see one that does not work, and I have personally supplied nearly 1000 pieces in the last twenty years in Germany.
If jsouthard got his fender stays from AN and the mudguard was drilled by AN I can, from recent personal experience fitting both to my latest Commando build, vouch for it they fit together. If, however, the stays were not supplied by AN, say they were from an "alternative" source, possibly in stainless, or the mudguard was drilled by the dealer- AN have dealers who insist on mudguards in undrilled condition- it is very likely the holes did not line up.

3. Germany has already bought AN, over three years ago, AN has quality inspection, but AN can only warrant its own parts, not those bought by Norton dealers from "alternative sources".

4. AN has only recently bought another Commando to check components for which proper drawings did never exist, in this case exhaust pipes.

5. AN produces all parts made to original drawings in England or EC countries (Germany and Italy mainly). Only a handful of parts are bought from sources that produce in the Far East. None of the mechanically critical parts, i.e. engine, gearbox and chassis parts, are sourced outside the EC bar a few low-turnover NOS parts which are re-sourced in the US.

6. I was a BMW dealer for 5 years in my life, so don't tell me they don't have quality issues. Like everybody else who does not produce 100% of the parts under his control (and these days nobody does or even could), BMW have quality issues with suppliers letting them down on occasion. Been there, seen it- several times.

Many of the problems conceived as "quality issues" stem from the fact there were, and still are, "alternative suppliers" ever since Commando production ended, NONE of whom have factory drawings, and these parts have found their way into virtually every Commando existing today. Add to it the fact most Commando owners, and many Norton dealers, to date have not understood the year-to-year changes, let alone what is and what isn't retrofittable, so frustration in the various workshops is bound to arise. It is always easy to blame a supplier. Few will admit their own mechanical incompetence. I bet a lot of the "quality problems" on this forum were due to respective forum member's lack of understanding or mechanical aptitude, but I have yet to see one of the contributors to admit to it by the time he has grasped the problem was him, not the part in question.

Joe Seifert
Norton dealer, racer and rider for over thirty years
Owner, Andover Norton International Ltd
 
"If Mexico Mike took the trouble to put his steering lock far enough down the top yoke he'd see there is nothing wrong with it- provided he bought the AN original"

Hmmm... c'mon now, you have NO idea what I did...and I clearly stated it was an AN part.

The lock is an AN part from Old Britts with the AN part number, supplied in an AN part bag with the AN paper w/logo and the part number on it. I did not install the lock in the fork at all because it doesn't work. When you put the lock in the fully "lock" position, the key cannot be removed. The lock is designed as if it were a "reverse" gas tank lock. On the gas tank lock it makes some sense to have it where the key cannot be removed when the lock is UNLOCKED, cap open. But the reverse of this - key won't remove when lock is LOCKED - fails miserably as a fork lock.

I buy mostly AN parts despite being constantly reminded that they are very poor. I am used to them requiring work to make them fit/function. Some never work at all and end up in the trash. Everything from gaskets to screws to twist grips to front air filter plates, to pistoin rings, etc, etc, etc don't seem to fit on a stock Norton Commando. Yet any part from an old bike - ebay or whatever - fits just fine with no issue at all. AN .040 - over piston rings, for example, could not meet factory gap specs (too wide) despite the bore being exactly to .040 specs. When I called the supplier, he said it was not unusual and offered to take the rings back and go through his stock of AN .040-over rings, measuring each set to find a set that WAS to spec.

As the owner of AN it seems to me that instead of telling me and others that we're wrong, it would be more helpful for you to take these comments from folks and try to improve the product. And Joe, some of us here have been racing/riding/wrenching bikes longer than you have. It's not like we're idiots... ;)
 
Joe, A little more data...

In the first pic - lock UNLOCKED - you can see the key is partially inserted, showing that it can be removed. The locking pin that stops the forks from turning is fully retracted.

In the second pic - LOCKED - you can see the key fully inserted because it cannot be removed. The locking pin is fully extended.

There is no number stamped on the lock itself so there is probably no way to know what "batch" it came from but I suggest the following:
Go to your parts bins and pull out 20 examples of this lock. See if all 20 will function properly, with the key being able to be removed in either position. The part number on the ticket, 030175, is correct per the parts manual.
Another Great job by Andover Norton!

Another Great job by Andover Norton!
 
Found the problem with the lock.

I disassembled it and found that the channel where the little tabs on the lock have to be able to move outward to allow the key to be removed was obstructed by drill swarf pushed up from the internal edge of a hole in the external cylinder. Once this swarf was removed (took 2 seconds with a small file), the lock worked just fine. This probably only happens occasionally but unless it is noticed BEFORE the internal cylinder is inserted and pinned in place, the lock will not work as designed and the key cannot be removed when locked.

So that's what caused it. As far as actually being able to use the lock now...the depends on whether I can drill the rest of the old pin out and re pin it.
 
Mike,
takes you right back to your opening arguements.
You shouldn't have to futz with new part to begin with.
A drop in part should be a drop in part end of discussion.
I was going to rebuild my front fork tubes if no other reason they are 37 years old.
They do not leak yet
After all the after action reports back on the fork bushes being all over the place size wise
I decided if it ain't broke I'm not breakin it.
I'm a parts jockey. It's worn out I replace it.
I think this is what Norton envisioned with the riding public in the day.
A shade tree mechanic who enjoys working on his ride.
Todays vehicle's I wouldn't even know where to begin.
It sounds like if your buying new parts today you better be a machinist as well just to dress it up so it fits properly.
Kinda sucks if you ask me.
Joe your response was very similar to BP's answer to the oil spill in the gulf :roll:
Marshal
 
It cracks me up. I guess some of you didn't grow up with British vehicles. All those jokes about "All The Parts Falling Off This Car Are Of The Finest British Craftsmanship" are made up by the masochistic owners. I see no reason why it should change now. :roll:
 
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