Another failed start

swooshdave · May 15, 2011

Was out in the garage tweaking some stuff on the bike. Took Paul's advice and "adjusted" the exhaust. Now I have some clearance. There was a small drip of oil under the bike. I don't know where it's coming from, although the feed line at the engine to the rockers was damp. I tightened that down a little. I decided to turn on the gas and ignition and give it a kick. Couple kicks and nothing. Then it almost started. Then I kicked a bit more. Nothing. Checked spark, nothing. Off came the tank so I could get to the wiring. Checked the connection, a few loose. Tightened them up, still no spark. Followed the power wire for the ignition back to the fuse panel. Completely off. Now this is the mystery, the connector is very tight and not easy to get on or off. I have no idea how it came off. Put it back on and I had spark but by then it was too late to fire it up.

It's a big advantage to wire the bike yourself, you know where every wire goes to. And when it's bad you know who to blame.

Better connectors are on my list this winter...

Hobot · May 16, 2011

So refreshing to be about as incompetent as most others, when it comes to Commando's ugh. Going by past saga's I carry a bunch of stuff to handle all sorta of things for at least 1000 miles and stick to planned routes I can be found along. Ah don't leave home with only inside shed testing amount of gas in tank. If you ever have a coil bracket break off, consider what you might want with you 30 miles from home to get home with both coils. Never mind in your single plastic coil case. Wes and I spend a good amount of our bickering on all the places with bullets and blade connectors better served if screwed together. Have you powered it up in the dark, no lights and jostled the loom? Running? First times are better done at home base.

swooshdave · May 16, 2011

hobot said:
So refreshing to be about as incompetent as most others, when it comes to Commando's ugh. Going by past saga's I carry a bunch of stuff to handle all sorta of things for at least 1000 miles and stick to planned routes I can be found along. Ah don't leave home with only inside shed testing amount of gas in tank. If you ever have a coil bracket break off, consider what you might want with you 30 miles from home to get home with both coils. Never mind in your single plastic coil case. Wes and I spend a good amount of our bickering on all the places with bullets and blade connectors better served if screwed together. Have you powered it up in the dark, no lights and jostled the loom? Running? First times are better done at home base.

My shakedown routine will consist of gradually increasing circles emanating from the home base. I'm also going to keep in mind the locations of "friendlies" in the area. Unfortunately my "recovery vehicle" decided to puke coolant and now I have that to fix.

I definitely want to go with WeatherPacks this winter. There is no way that friction-based connectors have an advantage over mechanical locks. And waterproof. I didn't mind putting the harness together the way I did, in most places I left additional slack and once it's all sorted out with the lower-cost bullets they can be replaced with the more expensive WeatherPacks.

builder · May 16, 2011

Dave -

Don't discount "friction" connections just yet. The weather paks are great, but they are a bit bulky if you use them everywhere. Check out vintageconnections.com for their kits. I use a combo of weather paks and the bullet type connectors from vintage connections. Don't bother with the white plastic plugs they offer, I've used them successfully in the past without trouble, but essentially use a weather pak where I would want to use one of the multi-connection white plugs.

Hobot · May 16, 2011

Seems ole builder has been around the block more than a few times. One issue with nailed down terminals is the wire at end of terminals becomes the next focus of wear and tear. Lucas got it pretty dang right actually, especially for the cost.
Where I can't get away with house wire nuts, like ignition trigger wires I use those plastic thin cylinders with screw on end caps, forgot their name though. Even they are bulky enough you have to stagger the connections if many fall in a general area like behind the stem under tank.

On Ms Peel besides wire nuts, screw clamp type and Molex plugs I'll low temp solder
and shrink wrap and just slice open and melt apart and re-do as needed.

gjr · May 16, 2011

Don't you see, the problem was caused by fixing the oil leak... Bullets have worked fine for me for 40,000+ miles. It is the wire that breaks off at the end of the solder joint.

Greg

swooshdave · May 16, 2011

gjr said:
Don't you see, the problem was caused by fixing the oil leak... Bullets have worked fine for me for 40,000+ miles. It is the wire that breaks off at the end of the solder joint.

Greg

Maybe on a stock harness but I'm using cheap crimp-on bullets.

swooshdave · May 16, 2011

hobot said:
Seems ole builder has been around the block more than a few times. One issue with nailed down terminals is the wire at end of terminals becomes the next focus of wear and tear. Lucas got it pretty dang right actually, especially for the cost.
Where I can't get away with house wire nuts, like ignition trigger wires I use those plastic thin cylinders with screw on end caps, forgot their name though. Even they are bulky enough you have to stagger the connections if many fall in a general area like behind the stem under tank.

On Ms Peel besides wire nuts, screw clamp type and Molex plugs I'll low temp solder
and shrink wrap and just slice open and melt apart and re-do as needed.

http://www.posi-lock.com/

swooshdave · May 16, 2011

builder said:
Dave -

Don't discount "friction" connections just yet. The weather paks are great, but they are a bit bulky if you use them everywhere. Check out vintageconnections.com for their kits. I use a combo of weather paks and the bullet type connectors from vintage connections. Don't bother with the white plastic plugs they offer, I've used them successfully in the past without trouble, but essentially use a weather pak where I would want to use one of the multi-connection white plugs.

I'm thinking something like these flat ones.

That should tuck nicely next to the frame.

And this could tuck inside the frame.

http://www.whiteproducts.com/weather_pack.shtml

Hobot · May 16, 2011

Yes that's it thanx. I used their line taps too on Peel. Still clunky looking compared to Lucas and a bit more difficult to crowd as many in same space as Lucas clusters.
Guess I'll have to invent my own.

swooshdave · May 17, 2011

Fired the bike up last nit after work. Couple three kicks. Having spark seems to help the starting process...

Been fiddling with the clutch adjustment. And the throttle adjustment. And the carbs.

And practicing kicking it. Still getting use to avoiding the footage and shifter. Not easy. It'll just come down to practice and perseverance. Couple more marks on my shin, nothing like pain as a teacher.

debby · May 17, 2011

I'm mostly using Lucas bullet connectors with individual or dual sleeves. I have the crimping tool. Easy to use, makes a good reliable connection. Pack the sleeve with dialectric grease, plug the wires in, good to go.

Debby

Hungry J0e · May 17, 2011

swooshdave said:
And practicing kicking it. Still getting use to avoiding the footage and shifter. Not easy. It'll just come down to practice and perseverance. Couple more marks on my shin, nothing like pain as a teacher.

I have several permanent divots in my shin...

grandpaul · May 17, 2011

My right shin looks like a Mexican soccer player's...

builder · May 18, 2011

swooshdave said:
builder said:

Dave -

Don't discount "friction" connections just yet. The weather paks are great, but they are a bit bulky if you use them everywhere. Check out vintageconnections.com for their kits. I use a combo of weather paks and the bullet type connectors from vintage connections. Don't bother with the white plastic plugs they offer, I've used them successfully in the past without trouble, but essentially use a weather pak where I would want to use one of the multi-connection white plugs.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking something like these flat ones.

That should tuck nicely next to the frame.

And this could tuck inside the frame.

http://www.whiteproducts.com/weather_pack.shtml

Yup...those will work. I started with a kit from hipoparts.com and have replenished the ones I seem to use regularly from them also. Didn't really shop for price, they're reliable so I've stuck with them. I use the weather packs off the handle bar cluster under the tank and from the stator to the regulator.

I started using them in other locations (headlamp shell) but they're too bulky in that small of a space when you get more than a couple in there. Then again, almost all of my connections are hidden in the headlamp shell...10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag.

ashman · May 18, 2011

Hi

I have been using cheap crimp billets for all my bikeas for over 30 years and never had any problems with them but I do use a rachet criming tool, it crimps the billets evenly and doen't over crimp them, but I have a simple wiring harness and only use about 15 connectors all up on my Norton as well I leave enough slack in my wiring that it don't put any strain on the connectors.

Ashley

rick in seattle · May 18, 2011

Dave,

My own limited experience in three British rebuilds is consistent; when I rebuilt the harnesses, I didn't find a single corrupt connection at the bullet-socket interface. But I found some corroded and intermittent connections at the wire-bullet interface. WeatherPacs, I believe, judging from the diagrams, will present the same problem. A solid bullet-wire connection (competent soldering and heat-shrink offers better corrosion resistance, but opinions vary here), along with some dielectric grease on the bullet and a clean socket, will solve your harness dilemma. And they form a small package.

Rick

gjr · May 20, 2011

swooshdave said:
Fired the bike up last nit after work. Couple three kicks. Having spark seems to help the starting process...

Been fiddling with the clutch adjustment. And the throttle adjustment. And the carbs.

And practicing kicking it. Still getting use to avoiding the footage and shifter. Not easy. It'll just come down to practice and perseverance. Couple more marks on my shin, nothing like pain as a teacher.

A couple three kicks does not sound so bad. How do you get whacked on the shin ? Didn't you grow up kick starting 2 stroke dirt bikes ? If not, buy a weedy Bultaco or Montesa. They will teach you how to kick start a bike. If your foot is slipping off the pedal, check to see that it is not bent. I drilled and tapped the stop on the pedal for a screw to keep it straight. If you are just forgetting to put up the foot peg, it takes about 30 times to make it a habit...

Greg

DogT · May 20, 2011

I doubt if it's any help, but my original harness with the Lucas bullets and receptors seem to be working just fine. I just cleaned them up with a brass brush and put some oxy on them. I have to admit the coatings are rather brittle, but is not cracking, just stiff as the dickens. So far it seems to be working fine. We'll find out soon with the test drives. But then the 69-70 harnesses were much simpler, it didn't have that big plug behind the headlamp.

I'm sure Dave doesn't need any hints on how to kick over the Norton. I am surprised how many people start it with the right leg off the right side like a scooter though, I could never do that, it was an exercise in banging up my shins or ankle. I always had to get up on the bike and kick it through with my weight.

Dave
69S

swooshdave · May 21, 2011

gjr said:
A couple three kicks does not sound so bad. How do you get whacked on the shin ? Didn't you grow up kick starting 2 stroke dirt bikes ? If not, buy a weedy Bultaco or Montesa. They will teach you how to kick start a bike. If your foot is slipping off the pedal, check to see that it is not bent. I drilled and tapped the stop on the pedal for a screw to keep it straight. If you are just forgetting to put up the foot peg, it takes about 30 times to make it a habit...

Greg

1. Wacked on the shin. Did you not see the rearsets?
2. On my Bultacos you stand off to the left and kick them proper. If they don't start third kick I pull the carb and clean the pilot jet. Most of the time they start.

Another failed start

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