Andover Norton parts

I have posted about this on another site but, having run into it yet again with the overhaul of my 850's top end, I thought I'd bring it up for the consideration/refutation of others here.

I have found that Andover Norton parts tend not to fit. Most recently new head studs I purchased flat A$$ just don't fit properly. You can't screw them in, their shiny coating (WHY?) makes them too large and I refuse to force them into the AL head - cast iron I might not worry about. So I just reused the original head studs. Almost everything I have purchased that says "Andover Norton" on it didn't fit without modification - from an "oem" air cleaner to these studs. The air cleaner mounting tabs were so misaligned that I had to cut off one of the tabs and rebraze it in the proper location - the tabs were nearly 1/2" misaligned from one side to the other; it was obvious just looking at it that it wouldn't fit.

Frankly, I have become so cynical that replacement parts that say "Andover Norton" and "made in England," are, IMHO, euphemisms for "You either have to modify this part to make it fit or just toss it and fix the oem part."

I am willing to be told I am wrong but I gotta say, every part that I get from (mostly) Old Britts that says "Andover Norton" on it makes me head for the bottle of rum!

Did you ask Old Britts to comment on your experiences?

Two things could be happening:

The parts are all way out of spec...

Or your bike is...

:mrgreen:

Well the bike is a Norton so who knows what "spec" it was actually designed to meet?

I wrote Old Britts, expressing my opinion about the AN parts - I don't expect them to check each individual part but they have been great about offering to correct/exchange everything. My problem has been that the original Norton parts fit/align/whatever, perfectly but current AN parts don't seem to do that. I have purchased old Commando parts on Ebay and they fit perfectly. I just don't get it.

The studs are a perfect example...they won't screw into the head without becoming an "interference fit" and the oem nuts have the same result on the other end. They are the "correct" thread but the cadmium(?) coating on the fastener make the threads slightly thicker or whatever than the actual spec for the threads. They were apparently cut to the proper thread size and THEN coated. The oem studs are not coated. Yeah, they could rust but they actually screw into what they are supposed to.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that literally NO AN parts actually work "out of the box." The new oil pump gasket stud hole location was too narrow stud-to-stud to actually fit over the both studs without splitting the gasket at one of the stud holes. How hard is that to manufacture?

MexicoMike said:

I'm not exaggerating when I say that literally NO AN parts actually work "out of the box." The new oil pump gasket stud hole location was too narrow stud-to-stud to actually fit over the both studs without splitting the gasket at one of the stud holes. How hard is that to manufacture?

Click to expand...

You mean....you actually expect Andover Norton parts to fit, straight out of the packet....without any additional fettling?

But....where's the fun in that? :?


Seriously Mike, (and welcome, what took you so long to get here?) I don't think your experiences concerning AN parts are entirely unique, as I think many of us, myself included, will have encountered the odd problem or two, but maybe you have been unluckier than most, or maybe the quality of AN parts has slipped again, as I haven't had to buy any parts recently?

Usually a "Nick Name" is a shorter version of the original or genuine name as long as it "Fits". While this one is actually longer than the original it does seem to "fit":

Andoversize

GOOD ONE!

Maybe I'm too critical...

As far as what took me so long to get here...heck, I don't know. I guess I never noticed it or, if I did, it didn't register that it was a much better Commando site than other's I have been on. It took someone to send me an email and say, in essence, "You're on the wrong Commando sites, move to this one!" He was right!

Hi Mike, and Welcome,

I know how frustating it is to be living abroad and engaging in a hobby for which there are no local suppliers. Still, my experience on my Mk3 rebuild this past year was quite a bit different, so don't get discouraged. During the rebuild I ordered and received over 130 separate parts, often in multiples, from Fred at Old Brits. Nearly all of them came in an Andover envelope. All of them fit without modification. Since many of us on this forum depend on Fred and Andover to fill our parts needs, you could do us a great favor by returning the parts to Fred and have him research the problem. Or, you could chase the threads yourself and report here on what you find. I have no experience myself with Andover's head studs, but I have used their Z-plate studs (steel studs into an aluminum part) with no problem.

BTW, I cad-plated all original fasteners that were suitable for re-use. No problem with the plated threads on these parts either.

Good luck on your rebuild.

I have noticed the same thing with some of the parts, But I have always been able to get them to work. They should be better but some of the pattern parts are much worse, Some even to the point of never being able to get them to work. Sorry to hear you have had some bad luck, I hope it goes better in the future. Chuck.

I recently discoverd the #1 Head Bolt NM.25313 on my 750 Combat was missing for some time (17,000 miles). :!: Purchased a Andover bolt & washer from Old Brit's a month ago and the Head Bolt fit perfect. Even bought direct from Andover and the parts fitted fine on the Norton.

Perhaps MexicoMark just happen to be a victim of circumstance's of getting the wrong size parts?

My 2 Peso's worth. :lol:

Sounds like Norton must have designed these engine with too many head bolts!


I have been buying parts from Old Britts/Fred and Ella since '06 and they are superb. As stated, they have never hesitated to offer full credit/replacement of parts that have been a problem. It may not be fair of me to say I have a problem with every AN part. I suspect that if I tallied it, it would probably amount to a relatively small number though it SEEMS to me like annoyingly common.

Usually I try to figure out what I will be needing and have it sent to some location in the US where we will be visiting, then carry the parts back to Mexico. Once I'm here, it's just not worth the trouble of going through the shipping and US/Mexico duty involved in the return/replace process. I actually had the last order sent directly here - figured I'd give it a try. Shipping was about double what it would have been in the US for 3 day but I was pleasantly surprised that Mexican customs did not impose any duty - maybe because they were listed as "parts for old motorcycle" and the declared value was far below the actual price. A while back I ordered a card reader to be shipped here and the duty on the 30 dollar reader was another 30 bucks!

It could be that MexicoMikes head or threads have been modified, known to happen. I have read that there are several styles of head nuts/bolts out there, so maybe a checkup on those items are in line. I would check the thread pitch at least before ordering parts. There was a thread recently about the head bolts with different sizes. I have personally not had any problems with Andover parts, so far, just problems getting pre-70 parts and assembly pictures.

Dave
69S

Frankly it's just not their stuff. I've been disappointed in a number of parts I've bought since when I was a kid I bought real Norton parts from the dealer. I don't recall ever having a fitting issue but the most irritating thing I've been running into is that the majority of parts I've purchased for this bike have been a bit off. Not that tough, I've bought a few fasteners that were off and I just re thread them, but I shouldn't have to. New oil lines that leak, refurbished carbs that aren't right. It is annoying.
Recently a local kid brought a reproduction tank over that looked like it was done by a heroin dealer, not even close.

I posted this before and I think is still applies:

"When a new part is purchased, whether it is NOS, or aftermarket, the purchaser should feel that the part is correct. It should not matter if it’s for a Norton, a Chevy, or a Singer Sewing Machine.

We should accept that parts for our cycles will not be cheap, however, we should stand up and complain, both to the supplier, and on this forum, when they do not meet reasonable standards.

Fitting is a reasonable standard. Not breaking would be nice.

This is why I drive 40 miles to Raber’s in San Jose, Ca. I’m sure there are many other fine suppliers out there too. I want to be able to talk to the guy that both sells the stuff to me and puts it on bikes that he has to stand behind. More than once I have been talked out of buying a part. A good supplier will look out for you and thus look out for themserlves."

Hi there , it happens to me too , with the cylinder heads , but that was the 26TPI side which was slightly bigger,.....and yes they were cadmium plated, but I had the 3/8 BSC dye underhand and give them a quick job, in order to screw in the "new" sleeve nuts..........I remenber one guy calling that "Kwality control"......was it BDM ??

I've had the same experiences as MexicoMike with Andover parts. The quality is not what it should be, and it appears to be getting worse as time goes on. The problem with the head bolts seems to be a sloppy plating job after the threads have been formed. I was able to clean some up with a die, but others were so bad I ended up reusing the old bolts. Many other parts do not fit as they come either, although they can generally be made to fit. For now anyway. As the quality continues to worsen, who knows?

Debby

Here's a question.
If the quality of cyl and head studs is so hit and miss, why has no one has a set made up from 4340, had them heat treated and plated????
I've been into drag racing big block Suzuki's for years. I've made my own cyl studs for years for just this reason. It's not that expensive in the long run.
These are BSC threads, yes? the only thing even slightly odd is that they are 55 deg threads instead on 60 deg. This is easy stuff.

I haven't bought any parts for awhile so I haven't experienced this.
It saddens me to hear this and to think it may get worse but I have been very thankful for the availability of parts for these old bikes.
The parts availibilty is better than in the 70's!!!

I have not had that many Andover parts but several months ago I bought an Andover kick start lever that came as a kit. Main shaft, dome head nut washers etc. Not one item fitted the other and all appeared shoddy quality. I returned them to Ray at Brit Bits and the cheaper foreign ‘copy’ came assembled and appeared better quality.

My experience has always been good. I guess the people who need a heads up if quality is not up to scratch are Andover Norton! Drop them a line.

I built a Norvil replica a few years ago and the tank had to be cut to size. Unfinished in my view.

Speaking of tanks I bought a new steel one (Made in Pakistan) last year. It came well packaged but needed work to make the surface smooth and it leaked at the seams and around the "gas" cap. I have just resin sealed it and hope that cures the problem. I am now wondering how thick that steel is and what my next problem is going to be... If you do go that way sort the seams before you paint it.

Rob

74 Roadster (with yellow leaking tank
95 Triumph Daytona Super lll

pbmw said:

These are BSC threads, yes?

Click to expand...

Not all, as the ends of the 3/8" 067885 studs that screw into the cylinder head are 3/8" x 20 BSF.

http://www.britishfasteners.com/threads/bsf.html

pbmw said:

the only thing even slightly odd is that they are 55 deg threads instead on 60 deg.

Click to expand...

BSC/CEI threads are 60 degree.

http://www.britishfasteners.com/threads/bsc.html