Alton Electric Start

Hi All.
Some noises today with a new Alton fitted one mounth ago that yesterday worked very great.
The starter chain shell (i mean that the chain when i push the starter buttom makes trrrr trrrr trrrr trrr) and the bike dont starts.
I opened the primary inspection cup and i can see that the primary chain is tight like x manual and the starter chain is slack (one cm. Up and down) almost the same of first start.
But we know that you cannot tight the starter chain because there is not a register.
The battery is a new (one mounth) 18 Ah.
The battery is charging in this night for a tomorrow try.
What i must think and check?.
Thank you.
Piero

Alton has several "perishable" pins that are designed to shear in the event of kickback or other overstress. Probably yours have sheared.

The short starter chain seems to take quite a beating.
A friend had his replaced under warranty recently, it had loosened (worn/stretched) to the point that it was jumping teeth on the drive sprocket.
Mine has Andy Chains Iwis chains fitted to the primary and starter and even then the starter chain has loosened - considerably more than a months usage though.

Before the chain, check that the nut on the crankshaft hasn't loosened, if so everything on the crankshaft will spin without turning the engine over.
There is any earlier thread on this. Alton recommend locktite on the nut on the crankshaft, my thinking is that this nut should be retorqued a few times after use, to allow for any slight relaxation of the sprocket on the taper.

I run a dry primary and a belt drive and a 9 to one compression ratio 850 with an Alton an it has to work had to turn the motor over. I have had to replace the earlier type of coupling with the newer pin type version. It is now showing the strain also and today it replaced the three nylon pins with four i made up myself to try that as originals had almost failed. Also the pin that held the first idler gear after the motor fell out an the gear was loose and eating its way into its housing. I have modified it to hopefully work better in future. I have only finished this today an though it now works like new time will tell.
I really need to sort out how to post pictures to better expt but if you need to know PM me your Email address and i will send them. Look above the small starter sprocket at the inner primary case. You should see the end of a 10mm dowl pin that should be flush with the case. If it is it should be ok if not you may have the problem i have had. Mine had fallen out completely and as i removed the outer cover it fell out onto bike lift table it is 10mm diameter and 32mm long and is most definitely not what you want to fly around inside the primary case but i seem to have been very lucky as it and the primary case internals show no sign of this happening.

grandpaul said:

Alton has several "perishable" pins that are designed to shear in the event of kickback or other overstress. Probably yours have sheared.

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Hi.
Please, what are the "pins"?.
Do you meanthe six around the stator?.
Please let me understand beter.
Thanks
Piero

toppy said:

I run a dry primary and a belt drive and a 9 to one compression ratio 850 with an Alton an it has to work had to turn the motor over. I have had to replace the earlier type of coupling with the newer pin type version. It is now showing the strain also and today it replaced the three nylon pins with four i made up myself to try that as originals had almost failed. Also the pin that held the first idler gear after the motor fell out an the gear was loose and eating its way into its housing. I have modified it to hopefully work better in future. I have only finished this today an though it now works like new time will tell.
I really need to sort out how to post pictures to better expt but if you need to know PM me your Email address and i will send them. Look above the small starter sprocket at the inner primary case. You should see the end of a 10mm dowl pin that should be flush with the case. If it is it should be ok if not you may have the problem i have had. Mine had fallen out completely and as i removed the outer cover it fell out onto bike lift table it is 10mm diameter and 32mm long and is most definitely not what you want to fly around inside the primary case but i seem to have been very lucky as it and the primary case internals show no sign of this happening.

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Hi.
What are the "three nilon pins"?.
I cannot recognize where they are.
Please, let me understand better.
Thank you.
Piero

Hi All.
Sorry but i cannot understand and recognize the "share pins".
Thanks or help.
Piero

The small shaft with the chain sprocket at one end and the gear wheel at the other is made of two parts.
The gear wheel which is welded to the central spindle and the sprocket that is welded to a sleeve that passes over the central spindle.
At the opposite end of the sprocket is a boss that holds 9.5mm diameter 12mm long nylon pins these fit into the gear which is hollowed out on the side facing the sprocket.
Alton fit three pins into the boss but there are spaces machined in it to hold six. I and others have bought nylon bar and made up pins though i am sure Alton will sell some to you or maybe supply under warranty. I have fitted four pins to see if it lasts better as the nylon i got is not the same as that used by Alton but others have filled all six spaces in the boss.

With the primary outer cover removed if you look closely at the sprocket when pressing the starter you will see the sprocket not turning but the outer edge of the gear at the other end is turning.

I was so busy sorting mine it never occurred to me to take photos of the different parts which would have been more help sorry.

Piero
Send me an email at zenorm@comcast.net and I will send you a photo of this. Photo bucket has stopped working for me, at least today.
Ciao!

To All
Now Photobucket is working again. Here is a photo of the old style double gear. The amber red epoxy was not durable enough, evidently and it fails after so many starts and then there is just a GRRR GRRR sound or maybe a attempt to turn over the engine that ends in GRRRRR, each time you hit the starter switch.
Alton has updated the double gear and uses some PVC or plastic pins to replace the epoxy. They have also reworked the metal center and perhaps the outer. I did not get a photo of the new double gear (duh!). The small black pins are what is used in the new type double gear to replace the epoxy.

Hi.
If i have uderstood well are the plastic pins into the double gear?.
Thanks a lot.
Piero

Piero
Yes, the double gear comes apart and the plastic pins are located between the two parts.
I have not taken one apart and have not seen any instructions on how to take apart or how to reassemble one.
I believe they pull apart like the old style and are pressed back together. I will try and call CBE and confirm.

From this website http://classicbikeexperience.com/alton-ekit-for-norton/

It is most important that your bike be tuned and running properly FIRST. This includes a functional charging system and no backfires. If you bike backfires, you will shear the plugs in the “double gear” meant to protect the starter from same. Easy enough to replace, but does require some disassembly. So, make sure timing and carbs are set up right initially.

Piero
I did contact Jack at CBE and he confirmed, the small sprocket and shaft pull out of the larger gear, the plastic pins are inside and once apart you can replace or add pins and press it back together by hand. Once in a while is will need some additional pressure, if hand pressure not enough from a vice or clamp.
Ciao

Hi All.
To day i have opened the primary cover.
There was broken all the three plastic pins.
I have replace them with four hand made nylon pins of 9,5 mm tickness and 12,5 mm lenght.
The bike starts well.
I was hoping to not have to remove the rotor and stator but (futile attemps) it was not possible to replace the double gear and chain without desmount them.
Thanks a lot for the precious your help.
Piero

I fitted mine a few weeks back and it was fine for quite a few starts in the garage, on completion of the first test ride got home and would not start

but emitted loud mechanical clatter.

I was surprised to see only 3 fitted out of the 6.

Alton sent me a new set but a advised earlier I am going to check the ignition timing just in case.

They are made of a material that is designed to shear so using any plastic of the right diameter might not be a good idea.

Alton ornamental starters , back in the day (2012) had no shear pins in the shock devise, they have been added for a very important reason. so before sticking anything other than Alton approved parts to your starter if it is still under guarantee I would think twice and speak to them. Otherwise you may find lots of tiny and not so tiny bits of metal in your primary drive and this is not good, cos it takes ages to get things sorted by Alton and a very unapologetic attitude from (I wish I had saved your condicending email) Beverly and be grateful we sorted your starter and we've never had this problem before but here's a new shock devise out of the goodness of our hearts and, no we see no reason to explain why your starter disintegrated .

For me it's better to have a sorted bike that starts with a kickstart at the moment, but if it becomes physically impossible for me to kick start my bike, hopefully the guys on this forum will have ironed out Altons shortcummings and I can then take my £1400 ornament and refit it to the bike with confidence it will "do what it says on the tin"

Incidentally I received no paperwork from Alton whatsoever when the warranty work was carried out, Cowboys or what!!!

Hi.
I bought Alton from Andover that at soon has sent me in warranty the new pins.
I have used the handmade pins only to understand the problem and see the replace way.
I will not use the electric start before that i will replace with the stock Alton pins.
This only for warranty, because i dont think that the Alton pins are different from an handmade nylon pin.
Piero

pierodn said:

Hi.
I bought Alton from Andover that at soon has sent me in warranty the new pins.
I have used the handmade pins only to understand the problem and see the replace way.
I will not use the electric start before that i will replace with the stock Alton pins.
This only for warranty, because i dont think that the Alton pins are different from an handmade nylon pin.
Piero

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I wish I had bought from ANI, but I did buy from an Alton approved dealer who also fitted it in the first place, Colin from Loch Ness restorations . Would not deal with these guys again and having spoken to others of the same opinion . Although they seem to have a following of happy customers.
Best of good fortune with your starter Piero, hope it works well for you.

auldblue said:

but I did buy from an Alton approved dealer who also fitted it in the first place, Colin from Loch Ness restorations . Would not deal with these guys again and having spoken to others of the same opinion . Although they seem to have a following of happy customers.
Best of good fortune with your starter Piero, hope it works well for you.

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Auldblue, Just to clarify, are you saying you wouldn't deal with Loch Ness restorations or Alton again ?


Cheers,

cliffa

What I am saying is this, Colin's words to me were " all commando clutches drag, don't worry about it" , " it won't be your fuel tank that's leaking, it the taps" " speaking about mick Hemmings engine work, when I told him mick was doing the top end, at the time I contacted Colin about the failed starter " well...he can do a good job. " " I'll have to speak to Alton four hours is not enough time to fit a starter"





Judge for yourself from the photo if when I got the bike back it was pissing fuel out the tank, mick Hemmings work was first class I fitted valves , springs Pistons etc the bikes doing fine doesn't smoke or use oil or wet sump.
The clutch does not drag and I took me a lot fecking less time than four hours when I put the starter on after doing the gearbox. So what would you do ?

I have an Alton Starter that is now very much out of warranty but ANI is a dealer so I will deal with them if I need to when the time comes, but as far as customer care and satisfaction for me the only thing I can say is the replaced the part ,which has never been fitted as the time it was off I got the bike starting great.

Also one last word on Loch Ness restorations, if they had not dicked me about I would never have seen the locally placed advert for my beloved T160, so just for that alone I can forgive them as I just love that Trident.

Jg





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