Alloy Swingarm Commando 961

BrotherB

BrotherB

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Sep 6, 2016
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A Norton dealer here in Germany produces awesome alloy swingarms for our Commandos. The swingarms were made by a special company with German TÜV (= MOT). That means that they are tested by inspection engineers and you get an expertise. See pics below:

Alloy Swingarm Commando 961


Alloy Swingarm Commando 961


Alloy Swingarm Commando 961


Alloy Swingarm Commando 961


Very very clean job!

I talked to the driver who was overhappy . Fantastic handling. Best investment ever.

This is the dealer: http://www.thiel-motorsport.de/norton

Cheers

Bernhard
 
Looks very well made, but will there be a corrosion issue with aluminum.
Shouldn't the swingarm be anodized or coated to avoid corrosion?
I'd like to see a long term road test of the arm to see how well it holds up to normal use and weather.

Do you know what the difference in weight is between the original arm and the new Al arm?
What is the cost?
 
What is the advantage?

I get the 'it looks trick' part.

There may be a small weight saving, but I can't imagine it being significant.

Anything else? Does it fix some known issues with the stock item? Allow more tyre size choice? Or...?
 
Fast Eddie said:
What is the advantage?

I get the 'it looks trick' part.

There may be a small weight saving, but I can't imagine it being significant.

Anything else? Does it fix some known issues with the stock item? Allow more tyre size choice? Or...?
Click to expand...

I immediately wondered the same. If one wanted to save weight and enhance the handling on this model I would look to swapping out the wheels with the CF BSTs first. Don't get me wrong, it looks very cool. But after all the trouble and expense is it really worth that much?
 
It's main advantage is unsprung weight. More so if used with carbon fiber wheels.
 
The al. swing arm probably knocks off about six pounds, if Thruxton r to regular Thruxton 1200 weight difference is an indication.
That is roughly one HP, maybe not much, but as Voodoo points out, it is also unsprung weight, so doubly important.
I changed the rims to alloy and replaced the front brake on a bike for a total loss of 3 lbs, so maybe six pounds with one change is quite a lot.
I know for sure it takes a lot of drilling to get rid of six pounds!

Glen
 
As one end of the swinging arm is sprung, surely only half the weight saving (or there about) can be claimed as unsprung weight saving?

And looking at the thick structure of the arm in the pics, I have to say I struggle to believe it could be 6lbs lighter, but I know nothing about 961s so would be happy to be proved wrong.
 
Coming from a car racing back ground. Mustangs and Shelbys. Anytime you can lose weight from the suspension you will gain in handling and braking. On my 2016 Mustang Shelby GT350 I went from the stock aluminum 11x19" wheels with 305/35ZR19 Michelin pilot super sports that weigh 64 pounds each to Forgeline 11x19" GA1R open lug wheels and Michelin pilot sport cup 2 315/30ZR19 at a weight of 48 pounds each. That's 16 pounds off each corner of the car. Plus I also use Titanium lug nuts that also drop just over 1 pound from each corner. 17 pounds off each corner is a huge amount of weight that you can VERY WELL notice. Not only in accelerating, braking and handling. I also switched from a 2 piece steel driveshaft to a 1 piece carbon fiber driveshaft and could also feel the difference!
We're talking huge amounts of rotating mass! My car stock weighed 3791 for full tank of fuel. I'm now down to 3580 pounds. Also bone stock it had 526hp and 429 lbs ft of torque at the crank. With a tune that I did, 1-7/8" long tube headers, 3" cat less X pipe and stock mufflers on 93 octane gas I dynoed it at 521 rear wheel hp. With adding E85 fuel on the same dyno day I went to 547 rear wheel hp. That's 633 crank hp. On a stock engine with just a tune, prototype headers, cat less X pipe and E85 pump gas. The engine in the 2015-2017 Shelby GT350 is A 5.2L flatplane crank that red lines at 8250RPM. Code name Voodoo.

If you can reduce 6 pounds from that aluminum swing arm and more with carbon fiber wheels that's huge on a bike! Especially the wheel weight reduction. That's rotating mass. What are the stock tire weights of the 961? I'll bet lighter weight tires are available. Plus a catless X pipe and short exhaust. Possibly Titanium exhaust. What is the stock chain weight? A belt drive would reduce weight and A belt is less resistance and less power to turn. When I used to drag race, I built a 331 ford (bored and stroked 302) and just by going from a dual roller timing chain to a Jessel cam belt drive I picked up 9 hp on the engine dyno. It also helped with vibrations and harmonics.

Less weight helps everything. Plus it's easier on parts, prolonging life, and is a great way to increase performance.
 
Voodooo said:
Coming from a car racing back ground. Mustangs and Shelbys. Anytime you can lose weight from the suspension you will gain in handling and braking. On my 2016 Mustang Shelby GT350 I went from the stock aluminum 11x19" wheels with 305/35ZR19 Michelin pilot super sports that weigh 64 pounds each to Forgeline 11x19" GA1R open lug wheels and Michelin pilot sport cup 2 315/30ZR19 at a weight of 48 pounds each. That's 16 pounds off each corner of the car. Plus I also use Titanium lug nuts that also drop just over 1 pound from each corner. 17 pounds off each corner is a huge amount of weight that you can VERY WELL notice. Not only in accelerating, braking and handling. I also switched from a 2 piece steel driveshaft to a 1 piece carbon fiber driveshaft and could also feel the difference!
We're talking huge amounts of rotating mass! My car stock weighed 3791 for full tank of fuel. I'm now down to 3580 pounds. Also bone stock it had 526hp and 429 lbs ft of torque at the crank. With a tune that I did, 1-7/8" long tube headers, 3" cat less X pipe and stock mufflers on 93 octane gas I dynoed it at 521 rear wheel hp. With adding E85 fuel on the same dyno day I went to 547 rear wheel hp. That's 633 crank hp. On a stock engine with just a tune, prototype headers, cat less X pipe and E85 pump gas. The engine in the 2015-2017 Shelby GT350 is A 5.2L flatplane crank that red lines at 8250RPM. Code name Voodoo.

If you can reduce 6 pounds from that aluminum swing arm and more with carbon fiber wheels that's huge on a bike! Especially the wheel weight reduction. That's rotating mass. What are the stock tire weights of the 961? I'll bet lighter weight tires are available. Plus a catless X pipe and short exhaust. Possibly Titanium exhaust. What is the stock chain weight? A belt drive would reduce weight and A belt is less resistance and less power to turn. When I used to drag race, I built a 331 ford (bored and stroked 302) and just by going from a dual roller timing chain to a Jessel cam belt drive I picked up 9 hp on the engine dyno. It also helped with vibrations and harmonics.

Less weight helps everything. Plus it's easier on parts, prolonging life, and is a great way to increase performance.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with all of that. But IF the alloy SA is not 6lbs lighter and if only half of that is unsprung... I just think I would have preferred to put the money towards some carbon rims and enjoyed all those bennefits that you listed!
 
A start would be to know the cost and weight savings of the part.
I still haven't figured out what the stock bikes weigh. One report by an owner here stated "415 lbs with some fuel and on a certified scale"
I believe the Norton site shows somewhere around 415 dry. Cycle World mag weighed a fueled up 961 Sport on their scale at 517 lbs. So that's quite a range.

Same with carbon fibre wheels. BST has them as incredibly light as compared to stock sportbike wheels. But the numbers often don't include axles, bearings, sprocket carriers and other things you need to make it go.
One magazine review of the BST wheels from a few years back compared the BST weights to new Honda 600 stock wheels. The BST pair all in were 4.4 pounds lighter than the stock wheels.
Not the ten pounds that everyone expected!

Glen
 
I just got the BST wheels. I will weigh them including sprocket carrier and give you the figures as soon as I have done this...
 
Raphi said:
I just got the BST wheels. I will weigh them including sprocket carrier and give you the figures as soon as I have done this...
Click to expand...

Cool! And weigh the stock wheels, too - that would be interesting.
 
I suspect the weight savings will be much greater than with the Honda sportbike since you are going from relatively heavy wire spoked to carbon fibre.
Are you also going from tubetype to tubeless? If so there's another savings.

Glen
 
Raphi said:
I just got the BST wheels. I will weigh them including sprocket carrier and give you the figures as soon as I have done this...
Click to expand...

Lucky man! They are things of beauty AND function.

Looking forward to the weight info...

And the ride report, before / after comparison...

And the pictures...!
 
For those who ride a new Norton:

The series production swingarm is produced to be low priced. Look at the chain adjusters and the seat of the rear axle. You can bend the original swingarm by hand. No shit!
In my opinion this alloy swingarm is more torsion-resistant than the original one and it works accurately without tolerance. There is no massive difference by the weight I think.

Have you ever replaced the Norton rear wheel? Alone? With this alloy swingarm you can do this in a few minutes including chain adjusting. And alone of course. That's my experience with a similar looking alloy swingarm on my XS650.

For race trackers it could be interesting to play with the wheelbase if ther's enough place. I had done this on my Thruxton with success.

The owner of the alloy swingarm Norton told me that he had tested the alloy-swingarm directly compared to the original swingarm. A difference like day and night he says :mrgreen:

Anyway, I will ask Mr. Thiel about the price in the near future. I'm curious about his response :wink:

Cheers

Bernhard
 
Looks fantastic, but how much and are they making an alloy tank yet as the one from Norton sooo expensive :shock:
 
BrotherB said:
For those who ride a new Norton:

The series production swingarm is produced to be low priced. Look at the chain adjusters and the seat of the rear axle. You can bend the original swingarm by hand. No shit!
In my opinion this alloy swingarm is more torsion-resistant than the original one and it works accurately without tolerance. There is no massive difference by the weight I think.

Have you ever replaced the Norton rear wheel? Alone? With this alloy swingarm you can do this in a few minutes including chain adjusting. And alone of course. That's my experience with a similar looking alloy swingarm on my XS650.

For race trackers it could be interesting to play with the wheelbase if ther's enough place. I had done this on my Thruxton with success.

The owner of the alloy swingarm Norton told me that he had tested the alloy-swingarm directly compared to the original swingarm. A difference like day and night he says :mrgreen:

Anyway, I will ask Mr. Thiel about the price in the near future. I'm curious about his response :wink:

Cheers

Bernhard
Click to expand...



BTW - for race trackers there is a ONE07 racing generator that you may find useful. doesn't kick in until about 4,200 rpm :mrgreen: Direct replacement, no cutting wires.
 
richard-7 said:
BTW - for race trackers there is a ONE07 racing generator that you may find useful. doesn't kick in until about 4,200 rpm :mrgreen: Direct replacement, no cutting wires.
Click to expand...

Tell me more :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Cheers

Bernhard
 
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