advice on buying project 850

hi guys
i posted a coupla weeks back, introducing myself as new to motorcycles and motorcycling and looking for help in buying a project commando and getting it in good mechanical trim for around 4000.

i've found a '75 850 w/no electric start [1st question; did they make a non electric start in '75'?] in a rural mechanics shop. it's in pieces but i'm assured they're all there and in reasonably good shape. he's had it 15 years and it's not got a title so he dissassembled it and was going to part it out when i came on stage. he says he's going to try to get a mechanics lien enabling him to title it. i'm in indiana and it being the weekend i can't find out if this is doable. his price is 2000 but i think he can be got down some. i'm going to his shop thursday to look at it and take pix which i'll post here. i've read some articles on buying used commandos and from what i reckon the 850 eliminated a lot of previous problems. is there anything i should look for specifically? thanx, rick

rgrigutis said:

i've found a '75 850 w/no electric start [1st question; did they make a non electric start in '75'?] in a rural mechanics shop.

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Technically, Commando models can only identified by their mark numbers.
Those numbers only broadly relate to calendar years, the 850 MkIII is considered to be the '75-'77 year model. So a non-electric start '1975' 850 is most likely going to be a late MkII or MkIIA model.

Where in Indiana? Not that I'm going to buy it but I'm from hooiserville myself. I would take $1400 in flash it in his face and he will probably take it. Tell him it's all you have and it's all the parts are worth.

Maybe the reason he's had it 15 years and it's not titled is because the registered owner won't release the title. A mechanic's lien may not help as the registered owner can continue doing what he has been doing about it for the last 15 years even with a mechanic's lean on it. As it is now it is just parts and you may end up looking for another bike for the legal paperwork.

I purchased a used triumph one time at an auction that was legally sold to me there but I still had to get the registration from the last legal owner. It turned out he was unhappy about how he had legally lost ownership and he wouldn't release the paperwork for a reasonable amount of money and he wouldn't buy the bike back from me. I had to sell it in parts in the end.

I'd keep looking for a bike that has all the paperwork in place myself or buy that one with the understanding it may just be a parts bike for you in the end.

A lot of people pay 1000 to 2000 for rolling wrecks or bags of bolts. In my estimation it is a bad investment which usually never comes to the road.
I think the fact that there are so many *(((&^%###@ out there that are willing to part with their money, keeps people getting these kinds of prices.
In these times particularly, that is way too much money. All you have to do is look at the price of the parts you need to make the bike decent. You can spend $1000 or more in a second. There are plenty of running decent machines available for around $4000. I would stick with that and you will be way ahead of the game. It's not like you can't still work on the beast.

On the other hand if you got it cheap enough you could just buy a frame. I think I saw that old Brits had a couple for sale, but then I'm senile.
I've changed frames a couple times and it's not all that tough.

" You can spend $1000 or more in a second"
aceaceca


And it can easily take more than 10 seconds.

Owning a decent looking, running Norton, with some of the upgrades will easily cost $10,000. If your goal is to have one, budget accordingly. Buying something that has sat outside, is disassembled or wrecked is definitely starting in the hole.

Ten years ago I started with a complete 72 Roadster. Always garaged, but neglected. The purchase included a complete new exhaust pipes and mufflers, new fork tubes, springs, seals and bushings. I paid $2000 for the kaboddle . Doing all the work, except for machining and lacing, myself I still ended up with over $7000 worth of receipts. I did have a pretty nice Norton which I have somehow managed to put another $4000 into since restoration. You can buy a restored Norton for near 1/2 the price of DIY. Trick is finding one that is really restored, as opposed to lipstick on a pig.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from doing this, but damn it be prepared to spend some pretty big bucks. When I did mine I had just inherited a pretty good hunk of change and was feeling particularly flushed. If I had it to do all over I either wouldn't have done it or approached it in a different manner.

I completely agree with JimC on this, I've had the same experience and spent similar sums.
:shock:

well i'm in new albany. bmv is closed today so my inquiries will have to wait.

on a side note, i'm reading the review articles on the 850 in 'norton commando portfolio' and it seems the writers were not at all enthralled w/ the bike. leaking oil from the tach drive to the secondary chain oiler, primary chain slipping off and running on 2 chains, uncomfortable seat and handlebars, control switches, carbs unable to keep their tune, handling of swing arm if shim tolerances not maintained precisely, almost as much downtime as helicopter for routine maintenance, having to keep the rev up to lessen motor vibration negating the broader powerband of the 850, too heavy, ad nauseum.

they did say the bike ran well but disappointed in the1/4 and top speed. best clutch and gearbox in the business. sails alomg on the interstate w/a burble.

is all this stuff fixable w/diligent tuning and maintenance? did the reviewers all get bad bikes? i don't mind tinkering and preventive maintenance in fact i rather enjoy it. the oil leaks in particular bug me. always been my pet peeve. once pulled the mill outta my pontiac, removed the crank too install a new design main seal. it worked and in my admittedly strange way it was worth the trouble to not see the silver dollar size spot on the floor anymore.

anxious to hear if this was sloppy work from the factory or just the nature of the beast.

That review was when the factory was still going and quality was suffering just after the Combat fiasco, the complaints were valid in their day but the Commando today was so many upgrades available they all can be sorted with money or time whichever you fancy. On the revs front I can tootle along at 1500 rpm, you can feel the engine but compared to a BSA or Triumph its night and day, and above 3K its like a light switch turning off the vibes all the way to the redline, the 850 is the best of the Brits, torquey powerful motor for quick acceleration and the legs to go for long distances. Mine has never been apart expect for new rings and a gearbox bearing and has 24K miles on it and unrestored, I did 2K miles in a week last year with no issues.

Some testers liked the 850 Commando and some didn't. They were also under pressure to treat them as modern motorcycles which even in the 1970s they weren't really. The ancilliaries didn't stand comparison with the Japanese competition and perhaps the engineering didn't with large capacity Italian bikes and BMWs (which cost twice as much in the UK at least).

Commandos do respond well to care and attention which is also something they didn't get much of from Road testers (let's face it, they went out and tried to break them).

In terms of your specific points -

Tacho drive is an easy fix.

Most people blank off the chain oiler.

I fail to see how a triplex chain can jump a row on the chainwheel and have never heard of it. I can only assume that it was down to poor assembly.

Comfort is a bit subjective but the later seats with the dunlopillo inserts under the rider are pretty good. I've done 700 - 800 mile days on them and could still walk at the end.

Carbs - they do wear but can be sleeved or replaced. Mk1 Concentrics are easy to balance. A winter riding into the city every day and giving no attention will have the setup feeling a bit off tune but the average pleasure rider won't be doing it more than once a season.

Adjustable isolastics are a nice feature in my opinion. To some extent you can vary where the vibration comes but an 850 Commando is not the ideal bimbling around town bike really. Better to spin it up on the open road.

Routine Servicing (oil change, tappet, carbs, timing etc) is really a pleasant afternoon a couple of times a year once you've got it set up nicely

So I think the answer to your last question is that it's a bit of both but the problems are well known and the solutions are available. It's not cheap to do but if you want the experience of a large capacity twin cilinder old fashioned motorcycle still capable of keeping up in modern traffic then it's probably the best British twin to do it with and I think that Italian thoroughbreds of the period will cost a lot more to sort out.

rgrigutis said:

hi guys
i posted a coupla weeks back, introducing myself as new to motorcycles and motorcycling and looking for help in buying a project commando and getting it in good mechanical trim for around 4000.

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and in a later post ....

rgrigutis said:

i'm reading the review articles on the 850 in 'norton commando portfolio' and it seems the writers were not at all enthralled w/ the bike. leaking oil from the tach drive to the secondary chain oiler, primary chain slipping off and running on 2 chains, uncomfortable seat and handlebars, control switches, carbs unable to keep their tune, handling of swing arm if shim tolerances not maintained precisely, almost as much downtime as helicopter for routine maintenance, having to keep the rev up to lessen motor vibration negating the broader powerband of the 850, too heavy, ad nauseum.

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It would take an absolute miracle to cure all of these problems with a budget of $4000.

If you are "new to motorcycles" and want a nice bike to enjoy riding don't buy a Commando. They are hard work, they leak oil, they don't always start like you would want them to, they have lousy brakes, and they're expensive to buy parts for. Be realistic, they cannot compare to a modern bike. If you want a retro-look go for a Hinkley Triumph or the Ducati. Even Kenny Dreer said something like that in an interview, and he's about as strong a Commando fan as you're likely to come accross.

From the questions you've asked in your posts I would venture to say you will be very disappointed and frustrated with a Commando as a first bike.

All that said, I love my Commando; it's great fun. But then again, the most modern bike I've ever owned was a 1991 Harley, and they're pretty old fashioned themselves.

My advice is keep looking. Starting with a basket case and no title is definitely doing things the hard way. Try to find a complete, running bike with a clear title.

Good luck and happy hunting,

Debby

Recipe for a Commando: Add 2 teaspoons of love of British Iron. Add 4 cups of money, Add 5 quarts of Greasy hands, Add 1 pound of patience, and mix very well. Wait for a nice day and now you can cook. Let cool and repeat. You can add more cups of money to adjust taste. Chuck.

I find everyone's opinions quite interesting. I'm sure you guys do have ten grand in your bikes and I bet you have some top notch bikes. Just the pictures I've seen here would indicate that.
I have under four grand in my quasi Commando and that includes $800 shipping. That's probably comparing apples to oranges though.
People can often substitute work for money to a certain degree, but that can depend on who you know, and what equipment and skills you have.
In some ways I agree with you that the Commando might not be the best first bike, but love is a many splendored thing.
A lot of people tell me it is cheaper to go Triumph, and you also get good looks, but other than initial purchase item prices seem much the same.
There are some lovely older Japanese bikes you can restore much more reasonably and you can get a lot of riding out of them.
The naked early Goldwings are a real deal at the moment by the way, they are just getting discovered.

I hate to say his but,,,, well even if you get the "parts bike " for free you will easily drop $5000 to $6000 getting it together and running to a reasonable level of dependability. The parts are as my old friend Fidel used to say "damn 'spensive" and they add up very quickly and all that is assuming there aren't any major problems like a bad cam or cracked crankshaft etc.
I believe you will find that most, if not all of the Norton guys on this site are old time motorcyclists that have had numerous bikes and have ridden for many years and have chosen the Commando for it's,, let's say character, it is not really a good choice for someone just getting into motorcycles. Even for veterans of the sport a Commando can be extremely frustrating especially if your trying to do it on the cheap. The old construction saw says: you can have it cheap, you can have it good you can have it fast, but you can't have all three, applies directly to Commandos. There's a reason CNW gets upwards of $18 grand for their bikes.
Corona850 and some others have suggested getting a Hinkley Bonneville to learn on and enjoy. Even an Indian Royal Enfield would be a good starter bike and it would have the advantage of letting you use your mechanics skills to boot.
I know advice is only worth what you pay for it but the guys on this site are really giving you some good points. In the end you will do what you want, in any case whatever you do don't be disheartened and let us know what you did and how your doing.

Over the years many people have asked me what my favorite motorcycle is; my answer has always been the same; anything with two wheels and a motor!

Scooter

I hate to say his but,,,, well even if you get the "parts bike " for free you will easily drop $5000 to $6000 getting it together and running to a reasonable level of dependability. The parts are as my old friend Fidel used to say "damn 'spensive" and they add up very quickly and all that is assuming there aren't any major problems like a bad cam or cracked crankshaft etc.
I believe you will find that most, if not all of the Norton guys on this site are old time motorcyclists that have had numerous bikes and have ridden for many years and have chosen the Commando for it's,, let's say character, it is not really a good choice for someone just getting into motorcycles. Even for veterans of the sport a Commando can be extremely frustrating especially if your trying to do it on the cheap. The old construction saw says: you can have it cheap, you can have it good you can have it fast, but you can't have all three, applies directly to Commandos. There's a reason CNW gets upwards of $18 grand for their bikes.
Corona850 and some others have suggested getting a Hinkley Bonneville to learn on and enjoy. Even an Indian Royal Enfield would be a good starter bike and it would have the advantage of letting you use your mechanics skills to boot.
I know advice is only worth what you pay for it but the guys on this site are really giving you some good points. In the end you will do what you want, in any case whatever you do don't be disheartened and let us know what you did and how your doing.

Over the years many people have asked me what my favorite motorcycle is; my answer has always been the same; anything with two wheels and a motor!

Scooter

If you consider your time worth anything, the CNW is by far the best buy. It would probably take some $10,000-$12,000 in parts to build one. Not considering special tools and equipment bought to do a resto. $6000 for your time at $25/hr would be only 240 hours. Most of us would probably spend twice that amount of time do a build. If I ever do another Commando again the CNW route is probably the way I'll go. At sixty-four my time is worth a hell'va lot more than $6000.

heh,heh i guess i can't say i wasn't warned. i really do appreciate the warnings and cautions and i have taken heed. bear with my pipe dream. i somewhat view this a rather complicated puzzle that you learn on as you go. all i ask is that i can go for awhile, experience the inevitable failure, learn from it, fix it so it won't happen again, and profit from the mental gymnastics involved. i don't have to have the perfect bike anytime soon but hopefully i can gradually approach acceptance from the ever present 'you can't do this' segment.

back to the bucket of bolts. i talked to the cycle shop proprietor again and was told 'the bike was left here 15 years ago and the owner has not been heard from since'. fancy that! he's optimistic on getting a good title for it w/ mechanics lien or abandoned vehicle premise. the bike originally came to him for replacement of the mainshaft bushings which he has and are included. alas he's already sold off the fuel tank but that's the only part missing. again i'll take pictures of the whole lot and post them here thursday if i can figure out how to do it. but the sticky is good.

in reality i suppose i'm trying to replace the experience i had w/ my old poncho.

I don't see anything wrong with having a Norton as your 1st. bike. The 1st bike I ever bought was a Norton and I had only basic mechanical skills at the time. (The next vehicle I purchased was a van so I could go collect my Norton when it died on the side of the road). I still loved my bike and within 2 years, the help of other riders and a manual I had torn it down to every bolt and re-assembled it in my basement. It's kinda like a meccano set for grownups. Once I had it for several years it was very reliable and I didn't hesitate to jump on it and go for a 200 mile jaunt for the day and the thought of a breakdown didn't occur to me.

Today there have been many refinements conceived by the likes of the good folks on this site so one can really tweek up a Norton like never before. With your mechanical background you should get a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction from the learning, tweeking and tinkering period. It will be far more fulfilling than sitting on the couch watching tv with your time.

I don't drink or smoke so the money and time people spend on those vices are what I justify spending on my bike. A smoker likely spends $10,000.00 on cigarettes in 3 -4 years if you add up the costs. Some folks go to the race track or casino, some golf, we ride Nortons. A person has to have some vices eh.

Try to buy a running motorcycle and just do what you have to to keep it running for the 1st. season while you get used to riding it. That way you know all the parts are there and it does run.