Added a couple degree's static timing?

Stu Bodycote

Stu Bodycote

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Just wondering, has anyone tried adding a few degrees to the static/base/initial timing, by elongating the trigger pickup mounting holes and repositioning the pickup? The standard timing appears very much on the safe side ie quite retarded...with some of the symptoms of this being shown with difficult starting, low power, popping and cackling on the overrun, and header pipes very quickly turning red.
So if anyone has tried this, any results to report back on?
Cheers
Stu
 
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Interesting you say about the timing @Stu Bodycote. I was supplied an initial map from SCS when I received my Delta, and on installation I found the bike was quite flat. I gave them the feedback and they mentioned that the early maps had more ignition advance than the later — and supplied me one with the earliy timing (more advanced). The change was quite significant.

I used the compare tool in the SCS software and it showed double figure variations to a lot of the map.
 
The Coote's mentioned this in the past. I didn't know how I would measure my changes. It sounds like it is easy to do. And if you slot in the advance direction only , you can go back to the original without much fuss. What would you need say a 1/16th or 1/8th in long slot ? Maybe you should take the lead on this Stu ? :):)
 
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The question is why would you?? The sensor is just a trigger for the ecu nothing more. The crank and cam sensors sync. The cam sensor you can't physically adjust and the crank sensor wont be able to move enough to make a difference plus keep the air gap. Look at the teeth on the ring. You couldn't move it enough. Timing can be adjusted via the ECU and moving the fixed sensor is asking to add issues you don't need to add. You can advance or retard timing on the individual cylinders as well. But the ECU will adjust the timing as needed based upon the information its given or the map loaded.

Hot pipes at start up are a lean condition that can be cured with changing the fuel tables as needed. Also if its one hotter than the other there are known issues.

The latest map from SCS helped greatly timing wise but it also depends on how the motorcycle is set up.
 
Good call, not much can be done with that sized trigger disc etc.
The ignition timing is pretty conservative from factory, regardless of the maps installed...to cover fuels in various markets. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done with the Omex ecu's....and the SC ecu's are very rarely seen by comparison, infact its extremely rare that I see an old SC ecu'd bike now. Shame, as even though it was a fragile ecu, when they worked the bikes always rode nicer.
 
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No bait intended..... they were just fragile ie the bikes would often just shake them to bits. There was a box of warranty returned SC ecu's sat in obsolete, with at least twenty in there, many of them rattling when shook. Shame nothing was done with those, instead of just converting to the omex 600 with a patch harness. I'm assuming those would have also got slung when they moved.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
No bait intended..... they were just fragile ie the bikes would often just shake them to bits. There was a box of warranty returned SC ecu's sat in obsolete, with at least twenty in there, many of them rattling when shook. Shame nothing was done with those, instead of just converting to the omex 600 with a patch harness. I'm assuming those would have also got slung when they moved.
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The Typhoon is very fragile. Doesn't take much to cook them and the mounting location isn't ideal. The 400 is a better mousetrap. The problem now is not the ECU its how the components interact with it. On one bike it runs great on another not so great.
 
How is a bike advance map established? For automotive installations you can have knock sensors so the advance map doesn't have to be set too conservative but is it just a matter of advancing a bit at a time and dyno runs repeatedly? Interested partly because I'm just setting up an Ignitech module on a track bike with default map and was wondering how it was established.
 
City Garage said:
The Typhoon is very fragile. Doesn't take much to cook them and the mounting location isn't ideal. The 400 is a better mousetrap. The problem now is not the ECU its how the components interact with it. On one bike it runs great on another not so great.
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Ive only ever seen one 400, and very rarely see a typhoon. Euro 4, 630 & 600 is what mostly comes my way, in that order.
Yeah the original SC was terribly mounted, especially on the Dominator/racer.
 
Clive said:
How is a bike advance map established? For automotive installations you can have knock sensors so the advance map doesn't have to be set too conservative but is it just a matter of advancing a bit at a time and dyno runs repeatedly? Interested partly because I'm just setting up an Ignitech module on a track bike with default map and was wondering how it was established.
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Default maps are generally to get running and address any initial teething issues before running up on the dyno, imo.
 
City Garage said:
The Typhoon is very fragile. Doesn't take much to cook them and the mounting location isn't ideal. The 400 is a better mousetrap. The problem now is not the ECU its how the components interact with it. On one bike it runs great on another not so great.
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I think taking the time to go through and affirm all the base sensor values in the software (especially in my case, the TPS) is well worth it. Whilst I have only had my 400 a short time, it's been a significant improvement.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Default maps are generally to get running and address any initial teething issues before running up on the dyno, imo.
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Yep, When I've had cars set up, I'll run a very conservative fuel and ignition map and then it's to the dyno to optimise ignition and fule maps for max power. The beauty of the dyno is that it's repeatable and you can narrow in on what works best. Alternative is the butt dyno...but not that acurate! :D
 
Vernon240 said:
Yep, When I've had cars set up, I'll run a very conservative fuel and ignition map and then it's to the dyno to optimise ignition and fule maps for max power. The beauty of the dyno is that it's repeatable and you can narrow in on what works best. Alternative is the butt dyno...but not that acurate! :D
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My Cossie is still on butt dyno adjustment...no more than 25psi until it see's a dyno check over. Still goes alright though.
 
I have seen at Ollies company that his dyno man has modified the map for every single bike.
The main problem was that every single bike was different.
 
Inconsistency in tolerances.... you get the odd bike where everything just falls right, and they pulled noticeably better. The V4's were all massively different, more so than the 961's.
 
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