ABS?

Everything is possible, you just need a sensor, a round plate with slots for the sensor to look at, an ECU brain to interpret the signal and convert that into action on the master cylinder. It would have to be motorcycle specific as they are not the same as on a car and lean angle comes into so so another sensor. BMW have had ABS longer than any other motorcycle so start there for donor parts.

However it could be more trouble than it's worth as people offer to remove it which is always a bad sign.

https://www.grahamsmotorcycles.co.uk/workshop

If you need ABS, you probably should not be riding a classic motorcycle. These days many motorcyclists are very tyre-dependent, so come undone when it rains. It is very noticeable in road racing - as soon as it rains, most guys go backwards. I was brought up on shit tyres, so if it rains when I am racing, I am always in with a good chance of winning.

I had always assumed that commandos had anti lock brakes!!
The drum brakes ones definitely do!!!

I seem to remember back in the 70s a Norton commando with abs fitted being tested on a skid pan with stabilisers fitted
Maybe on "tomorrow's world" or something like that????
Anyone remember?
But I may well have dreamt that!!!

Whenever i have seen the question raised the usual response is that it is way cheaper to buy a bike which comes with ABS than to retrofit.
It is all a bit beyond me but i would have thought ABS only (no traction control etc) shouldn't be that difficult - just power to the sensors and to the brain/modulator in the brake system.
Another "business opportunity" for cNw???

They're only "anti-lock" because nobody can pull the brake handle hard enough to lock them! You have to have hydraulic brakes for an ABS system, so the older drum-brake models with cable-operated brakes couldn't have had one.

I’ve never seen an after market kit.

In principle at least, I can’t see why you couldn’t graft an entire system off of a donor bike.

It would be a hell of a job though.

baz said:

I seem to remember back in the 70s a Norton commando with abs fitted being tested on a skid pan with stabilisers fitted
Maybe on "tomorrow's world" or something like that????
Anyone remember?
But I may well have dreamt that!!!

Click to expand...

No baz you didn't dream it, there was an article in either the MCN or MCW yonks ago.

cash said:

No baz you didn't dream it, there was an article in either the MCN or MCW yonks ago.

Click to expand...

I'm sure I saw some film of it? Maybe fitted with leading link forks aswell??
Can't remember

Yes Norton were involved in ABS development along with AP Lockheed and the Transport and Road Research Laboratory (as they were known then). Commando’s were fitted with ABS & long stabilizer wheels to protect the test riders. I seem to remember the pump cost over 50% of the price of a Commando at that time. They were prototypes so obviously costly. Norton continued working with them, later developing an air bag equipped Interpol II for which I Think David Garside won an award.


Cheers,

cliffa.

May 1977 issue of Motor Cycle Mechanics magazine:

Page 1





Page 2 (Click thumbnail, then click again for full size image)


Page 3

So there you have it in the distant past at least one Norton had abs
Mind you back then we could visit the moon
And aircraft could fly pretty fast too
That's progress I guess!!!

baz said:

I seem to remember back in the 70s a Norton commando with abs fitted being tested on a skid pan with stabilisers fitted
Maybe on "tomorrow's world" or something like that????
Anyone remember?
But I may well have dreamt that!!!

Click to expand...

One of the bikes may well exist, as I have seen anex-TRL bike in the UK.

baz said:

Mind you back then we could visit the moon

Click to expand...

So they say...

Madnorton said:

One of the bikes may well exist, as I have seen anex-TRL bike in the UK.

Click to expand...

The Commando KYR 484P in the MCM article is currently taxed!

I don't know how many of you ride bikes with ABS. I had an FJ1200 with ABS. I think it saved me from embarassment a few times, but I am not sure it saved an accident. The first thing you need to do with any ABS vehicle is test the ABS, deliberately induce the activation. Not fun the first time, but it really helps you to know that when you need it you have to go harder on the brakes to get the best from ABS, not back out. You need to know it won't help much if you are carrying lean angle! So the window of effective use is quite narrow.

You also need to know it is working, and should check function regularly. The Yamaha system worked with separate circuits for front and rear. Checking the rear was working took less courage than testing the front!

At that time, late '90s, a replacement pump was over £1500, a refurbed one about £800, and the total extra weight of the bike with ABS was around 10KG of pump, fluid, sensors, valves and electrical stuff. To retrofit a system on any bike you are going to need to invest a considerable amount of money and the machining of wheels and forks etc. for sensors, mounting brackets, that pump can be as big as a good sized battery. And because the pumpp is electrical you willl need to make sure you have adequate electrical power, a good alternator and a big battery. No point having it if you cannot rely on it cutting in when needed! And I would not fancy having to do a government safety check with a home brewed ABS!

But really, what is the point of it on a bike you have individual wheel brake control and you are generally very aware of conditions, and most 40 year old bikes are not being used year round!

My next heavy tourer was a year 2000 Pan European (ST1100) without any of the fancy stuff, no ABS, no traction control, no combined brakes. I was much happier!

Apart from the one time I ended up on the floor, in a snowstorm, when the driver in front of me panicked and put his car sideways across the road! He thought I was going to belt him when I knocked on his window.....it took him a while to realise I was just trying to get him to help me pick up the 300kg of motorcycle he had caused me to lower onto the road!

Would ABS have saved the tumble, actually I don't think so, but who knows. Bike damage? The sacrificial plastic cover that Honda put over the built in crash bars! Now that was good design!

Not meaning to have a dig at the TRRL, but we did have fun watching some of their more hair brained schemes back in the day. ABS was in hindsight one of their better projects. The first page of the article posted mentions road surfaces. One result of their work was the application of a Dunlop high grip tarmac on the entry to many UK roundabouts and on some bends. Well it must have worked in tests! But it has a habit of develping very bike unfriendly corrugations and breaking up, usually in my experience within 2 years of application resulting in poorer riding conditions than before it was applied! Yet no matter how bad it gets, it isn't re-surfaced, or just removed!

It's quite amazing these were being developed in the '70s, before we had the ubiquitous integrated circuits for microchip processors we take for granted now.
We are only now seeing wide spread adoption of ABS for motorcycles...Triumph now has it on (nearly?) all models as of a year or two ago.

I think ABS is great UNLESS you are in the dirt or ice/snow. Then it essentially ensures you have no brakes! At least that was my experience when I had my first ABS car (Porsche 911) and encountered iced roads in a NY winter. My BMW R9T (ABS) on dirt roads in Mexico is similar - no brakes to speak of. The bike doesn't come with ABS disable capability but after my first ride that included some dirt roads, I installed a hidden switch so I could disable the ABS.