About to buy '72 Combat. Advice?

First off, let me apologize for not* sifting through the pages and pages of info here (*actually I have done quite a lot. Like 8 hours worth). But I'm hoping this issue has already been boiled down and concise advice is paramount. I am about to purchase a 1972 matching number Combat. Motor was rebuilt with Superblend bearings and breather mod to fix combat issues in 1981. Has C on top of the head. Bike was last on the road in 1982, it was stored properly with oiled cylinders etc. the motor turns and is not stuck. This was a 1 owner bike bought new from XXXX in 1972 when they were located in XXXXX . It has some pitting and the front rim is a bit rusty and it is dirty from sitting 30 years in a garage. 90% complete low mileage bike. What specifics should I look for to make sure I'm not buying a money pit? I know this model had some issues, two of which have been addressed. Thank you for your time and much appreciated advice.

They're all money pits. What are your expectations? The big money is in cosmetics and the tendancy to upgrade stuff that may be serviceable. If you can ride it, feel the gearbox and clutch. If not, check compression and listen for nasty noises. Beyond that you've covered the main issues with Combat motors. The fiberglass fuel tank on the 72's is also a problem, but that will be true regardless of the rest of it.

Got any pics?

hi mad,how much

One of the problem areas on Combats was the ignition points auto-advance unit. The camshaft gave it a flogging causing fluctuating timing. Most owners removed the entire points system and fitted either a Lucas RITA or Boyer electronic system. The next issue is if the gearbox layshaft ball beairng has been replaced with a roller. The torque and power of the Combat in the hands of a excitable rider could overstress this and cause it to wear rapidly with bad consequences if it failed. A shudder in the kickstart is obvious when the bike is being ridden indicating the layshaft is whipping and on its way to doom. If the previous owner has sorted these 2 issues, I suggest you have got an excellent chance of having a good usable Commando.

Mick

Get it! Save it from obscurity. It may be a little bitter sweet at first, but oh the love affair you will have. There must be an attraction and some admiration already. Don't worry, we'll be here for you. Make no mistake about it, it is a hobby with dividends. I don't care what bike you get, your gonna spend money on it. I had a brand new Ducati and in a week I was putting on new cans and a chip in the computer. That stuff ain't cheep either. Count on spenting some money. Hear me now, believe me later, no bike gets the nod like a Commando. Combat? Hell ya. Plenty of parts everywhere and enough free expert advice to build a space shuttle much less keep a Combat on the road.

If you keep your Combat in stock spec, prepare to search out a source of 100+ octane leaded fuel. Insert a thicker headgasket and you may be able to run premium pump gas with a little lead susbtitute for the valves and seats.

maylar said:

They're all money pits. ...

Click to expand...

Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking when I finished his post.

Buy the darned thing and start down the same path that many of us have. At the end of the day you'll have a machine that you understand (because you've been through it) and one that makes you want to ride it again and again. That is, if you have the time and patience for a good amount of work...

You have the opportunity to buy the Commando that I would really like to have. I'd jump on a Combat in a heartbeat and, if I didn't live in Mexico, would be actively looking for one.

Buy it, don't think any more about it...just buy it!

I recently bought a bike that had sat for 20 years in a heated storage. Cosmetically the bike is in good shape, but every bit of rubber is in poor shape from sitting for so long. Be prepared to replace isolastics, swingarm O-rings, master cylinder and caliper seals, and then you can start on the oil seals! What I have left out besides tires?

As for the modification, was the sump pick-up changed or the breather moved from the back of the case? Be aware that these are two different mods and the sump might be more important than the breather (that will surely start an arguement, so figure you want both).

If you decide that you don't want the bike, or would rather have another, let us know where it is!

Good luck,
Russ

rvich said:

If you decide that you don't want the bike, or would rather have another, let us know where it is!

Good luck,
Russ

Click to expand...

LOL

Wow. Certainly a lot of enthusiasm for "buy it no matter what." Always a good sign. I'm just in a precarious position with finances. Long story short, I usually ride a Triumph T150v, an dodgy shop made a big mistake that led to the complete destruction of my motor, so I'm out a bike. Of course I'm building a case and arguing with the shop, and I am RIGHT, but they're stingy and straight out incompetent bullies. This fight will go the distance. I found this Norton while looking for a suitable replacement LOVE and got pretty excited. Just in time for riding season, hopefully minimal maintenance to get it moving. I just want to go in smart, with a checklist of deal breakers just to insure I don't end up with another heap of scrap on my hands. All of my online research stated that this was an "issue" model and could be tricky, would need some specific mods, and therefore might have specific no-nos observable right off (just like my triumph Triple!!). I'm at my wit's and wallet's end about now but I don't want to pass up this opportunity, nor do I want to screw myself. Thanks for the checklist so far guys, it's muy appreciated. Anything else someone wants to mention please hit me hard, with specifics (as I won't have a Norton manual on hand) so I know what to look for and HOW to look for it. Thank you all so much. This is an exciting moment, hopefully a positive one.

Now don't believe for a second that the Norton will be cheap. Of course I bet Triumph triples aren't either.

And don't get worked up about the 72. As long as it has the superblends you can pretty much leave it alone. The bad news is that no one ever leaves a Norton alone. :mrgreen:

Youll buyit,It will piss you off, Youll fix it, Youll fall in LOVE with it, YOU will become addicted. I have three. Phil

Well let's just say it is cheap. Shockingly so, which leads me to believe there is wool to be brushed from my eyes. I'm boning up via you experts hoping that your posts will sharpen my vision. You know what they say about something too good to be true!

Being a Brit guy I am familiar with the Boyer and Rita solutions. But points are no deal breaker for now.

ML said:

The next issue is if the gearbox layshaft ball beairng has been replaced with a roller. The torque and power of the Combat in the hands of a excitable rider could overstress this and cause it to wear rapidly with bad consequences if it failed. A shudder in the kickstart is obvious when the bike is being ridden indicating the layshaft is whipping and on its way to doom.

Click to expand...

Nothing leads me to believe this mod has been made thus far. On a non-running bike, is there any other way to determine whether the bearing may be nearing jeopardy?

Danno said:

If you keep your Combat in stock spec, prepare to search out a source of 100+ octane leaded fuel. Insert a thicker headgasket and you may be able to run premium pump gas with a little lead substitute for the valves and seats.

Click to expand...

Anyone you recommend getting this gasket from and any make in particular?

rvich said:

As for the modification, was the sump pick-up changed or the breather moved from the back of the case? Be aware that these are two different mods and the sump might be more important than the breather (that will surely start an arguement, so figure you want both).

Click to expand...

I'll know the answer tot his shortly. I have also heard in 1972 Norton moved the breather from the left-hand side of the camshaft to the back of the cranckcases, right at the bottom - this was not ideal as the breather unit could malfunction. Later the breather was moved again to the very top of the timing side and if that's what was done then that's great. You agree?

(I just checked the posts after taking a really long time writing this before I post it, dinner and all. I'm gonna post it anyway.)

Welcome. These are generic questions, not specific to make, year, or whether it's a Combat or not. But they do beg to be asked. You said this is a one owner bike, so you're buying from the original owner? Have you asked him why he parked it for 30 years? Has he tried to start it? If not, why not? Any bike will sell for more if it runs, even badly. Will he let you try to start it if you change the oil, bring a battery, ect.? 90% complete, what makes up the other 10%? Depending on what that 10% is, it can be really pricey. And lastly, what's the gastank made of :?: :!: :!: :!:

Even if this was one of those 'Crate Bikes', which aren't just virginal, they are neonatal, there's issues on a bike that's been sitting that long. Anything rubber probably needs replacing. Iso's, tires, possibly seals, oil lines, seat cover, and even the wiring. The insulation gets brittle and the sheetmetal in the bullet connectors just crack all by themselves. Lastly, go over to BritBike and look under the Norton forum for a thread called Bad Shell Bearings- FROM LOOSENED CRANK SLUDGE. It takes a long time for that to happen, but 30 years would just about do it. And it bears repeating, does it happen to have an Interstate STEEL tank? If so it counts for a whole lot.

Welcome Mad

I've recently got my 72 Combat on the road after it was sleeping for 32 years in a garage, so I have an idea of where you may be going.

>>Danno wrote:
If you keep your Combat in stock spec, prepare to search out a source of 100+ octane leaded fuel. Insert a thicker headgasket and you may be able to run premium pump gas with a little lead substitute for the valves and seats.

Anyone you recommend getting this gasket from and any make in particular?<<

I also wanted to lower the compression from th Combat's 10 to 1 and I did it by getting an aluminum spacer plate from Old Britts that goes under the barrel.
Works fine for me however does mean lifting the barrel off pistons. I haven't seen a thicker head gasket out there but if it exists it would need to be metal not the isleted fiber ones Old Britts recommends. Purists will prefer the original copper ones.

If you get the bike you will want to consider adding the reed valve crankcase breather to minimize crankcase pressure and associated oil leaks. I use the SX650
one. Find a thread on the subject, lots of discussion.

I put the Pazon electronic ignition on mine. Works great and will work fine at lower voltages that would cause the Boyer to kickback.

I also swapped the twin Amals for a single 34mm VM Mikuni. This is a very common change. Simple operation, easy starting (big deal on this bike),
smooth running, helps low end torque and good fuel economy. The only way I see the twin Amals being worth keeping is cost (already there) or you are looking for that last 5% of power north of 6,000 RPM.

I put in a new Standard Cam in place of the Combat's 2S high performance one, which really requires running north of 4,000 whereas I really wanted more of a cruiser than a sprinter.

Replaced the transmission 19 tooth sprocket with a 21 toother for better cruising. Lost some excelleration but if I wanted to race stoplight to stoplight I'd get that new BMW S1000RR crotch rocket. 193HP !!!.

Parts for these bikes are available and don't tend to be expensive.
A lot of used and new parts and entire bikes are on EBay under Norton Commando. You have to careful but I've found some bargains there. My Mikuni with manifold, new in box for $125!!
Depending on where you are (country?). I've used a lot of sources and I find Old Britts here in the States has a great site worth browsing and excellent service. They have a whole bunch of tutorials on all kinds of operations including stripping and rebuilding transmission.
Getting the Shop Service Manual and Parts Manual will be essential going forward.

This bike requires you to get your hands dirty in order to save money and to really connect with it's soul.
But like others have said once you're hooked you're hooked!

Good Luck
Bob

I often bitch and kid about the cost of my Norton. BUT..............

I paid 4200 for it. I figure I will have 3K + in it in the first 5 years of ownership.

Every night I get to tinker with my hobby.

Soon I will play with my hobby.

I will then have an apperciating asset worth about 5 - 6 K.

Try that with Water Sking, Snow sking, etc. I know a guy who spends over 20k a year to shoot little birds, in the rain, for about a month a year.

Buy, enjoy, ask, learn, share, play. Welcome the the club. I'm having a ball, I think you will too.

bpatton said:

(I just checked the posts after taking a really long time writing this before I post it, dinner and all. I'm gonna post it anyway.)

Welcome. These are generic questions, not specific to make, year, or whether it's a Combat or not. But they do beg to be asked. You said this is a one owner bike, so you're buying from the original owner? Have you asked him why he parked it for 30 years? Has he tried to start it? If not, why not? Any bike will sell for more if it runs, even badly. Will he let you try to start it if you change the oil, bring a battery, ect.? 90% complete, what makes up the other 10%? Depending on what that 10% is, it can be really pricey. And lastly, what's the gastank made of :?: :!: :!: :!:

Even if this was one of those 'Crate Bikes', which aren't just virginal, they are neonatal, there's issues on a bike that's been sitting that long. Anything rubber probably needs replacing. Iso's, tires, possibly seals, oil lines, seat cover, and even the wiring. The insulation gets brittle and the sheetmetal in the bullet connectors just crack all by themselves. Lastly, go over to BritBike and look under the Norton forum for a thread called Bad Shell Bearings- FROM LOOSENED CRANK SLUDGE. It takes a long time for that to happen, but 30 years would just about do it. And it bears repeating, does it happen to have an Interstate STEEL tank? If so it counts for a whole lot.

Click to expand...

Despite your frustration, that's exactly the sort of stuff that matters. Thank you. The tank, anyhow. While I had discovered there were two styles I did not know which was preferred. I have not SEEN the bike yet. The guy is sort of cagey with his emails (probably an older gent I assume who never made the full e swap) so many of these questions are unanswerable. That's precisely why I'm picking at your brains! I am preparing for our meeting in advance, he has promised to save it for my first shot at it. Listing off these known failure is a big help, I know all the standard old bike protocol (rubber, electrics, rust, showing up with a charged battery and some tools just in case), but each manufacturer and model had flaws specific to themselves, and enthusiasts like yourself can rattle them off as no brainers while my expertise is in other models. So please, yell at me some more, I NEED it!

I first rode a combat 750 when I had a T150V and I would have gladly swapped over with no hesitation whatsoever.
The Norton is far more long-legged and gets off the line better than the Trident (although I'm keeping an eye open for a T160 right now ...).

Once you've got them both sorted (you ARE buying it, aren't you?), please let me know if you feel differently.

Given that a frame with a title cleared $1000 in the UK recently, I'd say if all the bits are there, there's little risk of it being a bad purchase.

Looking forwards to hearing how you get on.

I wouldn't sweat the breather much. Unless the previous owner has done something downright stupid you can pretty much reverse direction or change it completely without a lot of stress. The modification to the sump is a different story and will be hard to verify but you should read this article:
http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_start.html

Having read that you will be better prepared to ask about how the modification was performed and sort out any BS. The same article talks about moving the breather to the timing case. There has been a good case built in various threads here that keeping it in the original location is the right way to go but with a good reed valve. I think that regardless of which school of thought people are in that there is agreement that any reed valve is better than none.

You say that the bike is cheap? Hmmm, dang why do I live in the middle of nowhere? Actually I guess I am not that centrally located.

Russ