850MkIIa rebuild underway

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
2,106
Country flag
After months of 'preparation' I've finally made a start on getting my '74 850 MkIIa Roadster back together. It's going to be a while before its finished, but I'm keen to have a rolling chassis with the engine substantially complete before Christmas.....we'll see!

My intention is to have a reasonably standard-looking bike, but with as many enhancements as possible. I'm trying not to cut corners, and my aspiration is to go for the best available rather than the cheapest solution - I'd much rather spend the money once and get over it!
So far, I've decided on an RGM belt drive with the double-gearbox adjuster, Ikon shocks and progressive fork springs together with the Lansdowne damper mod.
I'm keeping the standard front brake for now, but I've had the master cylinder sleeved down by RGM.
The motor is being rebuilt to standard spec, and I'm going to fit a Trispark ignition.
Although the bike came with a complete balance-piped black-cap exhaust system in great shape, I'm going for straight-through pea-shooters with 750 headers.

This bike is being put together based predominantly on the knowledge gained on this forum, so I'm keen to share my experience with the good folks who have provided such useful advice.

Here are a couple of 'before' photos with a very enthusiastic helper on board. This is the day I collected the bike.

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Looks OK from the reverse angle, but the left hand side is more representative of the overall condition of the bike

850MkIIa rebuild underway


The wheels had been rebuilt with stainless spokes on the original Jones rims, so they've been left as-is, and the forks had new stanchions fitted.
Otherwise, it was pretty shabby throughout, although I believe the mileage to be genuine, based on subsequent stripping.

850MkIIa rebuild underway


It was clear that the bike had suffered an exhaust thread repair failure, which is my guess as to why it was taken off the road - the failed weld is just visible on the left side of this shot.
The head itself is otherwise in very good shape, and the valve guides are still OK. The rocker spindles need replacing however; due to inadequate hardening: This has turned out to be a recurring theme - more later.

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Here is a better shot of the loose insert

850MkIIa rebuild underway


I'll come back to the engine in a future post.
Anyway, once stripped the frame got blasted and etch-primed...

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Followed by a couple of coats of PPG 2-pack black, which (though I say so myself) has come out rather well, and seems to be fairly tough - so far :wink:

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Interestingly, the frame is an 'Italian Job', but has imperial tube sizes, which seems to contradict everything I've read on the subject from a variety of sources.

More to follow!
 
B+Bogus said:
Interestingly, the frame is an 'Italian Job', but has imperial tube sizes, which seems to contradict everything I've read on the subject from a variety of sources.

More to follow!

Why is it an Italian job?
 
Good luck. I like the picture of the frame on the table. You must have a good understanding spouse.

I rebuilt my 750 years ago when I lived by myself in an apartment. Funny how all the finished stuff ended up inside and not in the garage.
 
I like the table shot too.
Looks right at home.

Years ago, (before spouse) I had a M/C battery charging on my kitchen counter.
A married friend saw it and burst into laughter. I had no idea what was so funny. He laughed even harder.
I never did get it...



til I got married.

Sorry for the Hi-jack
Frame looks great. Carry on.
 
Yes, the frame looks great, how does the paint job you did compare to having it powder coated?

Jean
 
Looks like a great find.

and yes, Andy's wife is cool with it on the kitchen table because he put a towel on the table first... like most of us, he's been trained - somewhat.

So far so good!
 
And btw, Andy, I'm running the re-sleeved original master too, From Rabers. unless you're a maniac (as I was 30 years ago) it STOPS, progressively, and really well. "Soft" pads and stainless calipers are a real good investment too. I also replaced my stainless disk with a cast iron, drilled one. Not that my disk needed to run cooler, but it rains a lot around here... I think the pukas (holes) help keep it drier. happy wrenching! cheers, Don
 
Excellent! Thanks for posting, you may just give me the kick in the pants I need to start on my 74 MKIIa.
 
Looking good, better than what I started with. Can also vouch for the RGM conversion. Many warned me off this citing slippage of the liner etc but in 12,000 miles it has proved itself. Best of luck.
 
Thanks for all the comments,

swooshdave said:
Why is it an Italian job?

The frame number has an F prefix, which identifies as an Italian-built outsourced frame.

Bobs850 said:
Good luck. I like the picture of the frame on the table. You must have a good understanding spouse.

I rebuilt my 750 years ago when I lived by myself in an apartment. Funny how all the finished stuff ended up inside and not in the garage.

You don't know the half of it!
I did wait until she was out with the kids for the day, but you're right - she understands...the reason we got together in the first place was because I was the only guy she knew who could fix her H***da 400/4!

Here's another example of our unique domestic harmony (Bonnie crank in the freezer - I didn't get a photo of the Thruxton flywheel in the oven..), although I never told her about that one :oops:

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Jeandr said:
Yes, the frame looks great, how does the paint job you did compare to having it powder coated?

Jean

Jean, the biggest difference is the level of gloss, and the next-best benefit is that bolts go through the frame without the need to carve away the coating as the build-up with powder coating can get pretty excessive. I won't be able to comment on the durability for a while yet, but it seems tough - and it's easier to touch up than powder.

FInally, I opted for this brake setup because I put twin discs on my Bonnie, and its now hugely overbraked...if there is such a problem :mrgreen: It did highlight that the cylinder ratio needs to be matched to the caliper, and that the surface area of the brake wasn't the issue as such.
I'd welcome any advice regarding pad compounds for the standard caliper, as this can make quite a difference based on previous experience. What does anyone else recommend (or not!)?
 
Hi Andy,I also have a M registered 850 MK11a and was wondering how close the numbers are between yours and mine.Mine first registered in Feb 74 with engine number 310533 yours anywhere near?.......................Cheers Andy
 
arc said:
Hi Andy,I also have a M registered 850 MK11a and was wondering how close the numbers are between yours and mine.Mine first registered in Feb 74 with engine number 310533 yours anywhere near?.......................Cheers Andy

Mine's 3084XX, so a little earlier. The Norton Owners club confirmed mine was built September '73.
 
My number is 310410, its build date is stamped on the red plate on the headstock, from memory its Nov 73 but will check.
 
kommando said:
My number is 310410, its build date is stamped on the red plate on the headstock, from memory its Nov 73 but will check.
Hi kommando ,My build date is 11/73 also so our bikes are only a 123 apart.wonder how many they produced a week? Possibly from the same production run? Sorry Andy i think i'm hijacking your thread...
 
No such thing as a thread hijack in my book - as long as it's about Nortons :wink:

My previous comments about my frame being Italian had brought some off-forum discussion with some very knowledgeable folks, so there's still some uncertainty about what's what. Nevertheless, I'll go with the balance of probabilities - and the UK Norton Owners Club - for now and leave my comments as-is, but I guess it's still an open topic.

Parking the frame for now, the first 'show-stopper' was the gearbox: I was reasonably confident that the 'box hadn't been messed with, but a strip was essential to see what was inside.
It still had the original Portugese layshaft bearing in good condition (does this make it a collector's item?), but I ordered a superblend along with new gaskets and seals.

The outside of the gearbox looked quite messy, but this was mostly due to the original paint(!?), so it came off with Nitromors to reveal an as-new casing underneath.
The insides were in excellent condition with no corrosion evident, despite there being some water in with the oil.

The new bearing went in as easily as the old one came out - some heat applied from behind and it all went fine.

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Everything was looking good for a quick rebuild, but notwithstanding the eveident low mileage, I thought an inspection of all the components was in order...

The revised for '74-ratio second gear pair was introduced for this year, and evidently it coincided with the removal of effective quality control!

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Discussions on the Forum revealed I wasn't the first to see this, and there's still a suspicion that the replacements will go the same way: has anyone with an early (pre-'74) gearbox seen this?
I don't believe this to be as a result of shaft flex - it looks like good old-fashioned inadequate heat-treatment to me :roll:
Maybe if the earlier boxes are OK it may be better to go with the early gears - I didn't.

I decided to replace the gears with the 'correct' ones and I'll find out eventually if the new ones are to spec (assuming the spec was right, of course...).

After this the gearbox went together well, and I actually rather enjoyed the experience - so much so I went a bit mad with the camera :)
I shimmed up the kickstart shaft/layshaft interface with Isolastic shims as per the OldBritts advice http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_start.html
Their photos are far better than mine, but it's my gearbox we're looking at here ;)

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Note the selector gear cup in the correct 4th gear position here..the inner edge lines up with the centreline of the top stud

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Getting there...

850MkIIa rebuild underway


And finally, the complete box fitted into the cradle, together with re-chromed kickstart lever.

850MkIIa rebuild underway


Note the rather oily masked area for the swinging arm bearing/seal. I fitted the gearbox with the RGM double-sided adjuster as I'm going to go with their belt-drive.

More later!
 
Andy
The gear face spalling is common in Norton gearbox's. It is most prevalent on 1st main, second pair and 4th lay shaft. forth lay shaft is in play in all but 4th gear and is a small diameter gear as is 1st main so both are highly stressed.
 
grandpaul said:
Ferrodo pads have worked well for me as have (believe it or not) Emgo!

That's reassuring - the pads I got last week were Emgo, so I was fishing a little ;)
I got them from RGM, who have sent nothing but good stuff so far :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top