75 850 ES clutch

Some pics:

Empty Clutch basket




Wide shot clutch out




Bronze clutch plate (Do the all have the grove cut into them?)



All the clutch plates ready for cleaning, 11 in total




RGM clutch nut with seal on the left, original on the right, anybody out there use one of the RGM nuts?

click said:

I got all my 'bits' from RGM.

I got a clutch nut with a seal installed. It's quite a bit longer than the original nut. I rang RGM & they said this is the one the sell for the Commando so it is the correct one. I'm just being extra careful, has anybody fitted the RGM clutch centre nut? did it work ok?

Click to expand...

I bought the RGM nut, and it was too long, even without the washer!

I ended up re-fitting the Dave Comeau seal which I had been using previously.

click said:

Bronze clutch plate (Do the all have the grove cut into them?)

Click to expand...

Yes, the standard bronze plates do.

Madnorton said:

I have used some semi synthetic engine oil for Jap bikes that is suitable for wet clutches, the thing being if it does contaminate the plates it will most probably have little affect and be cleared via the scrolling and being semi synthetic may not be affected by the high temperature generated between the plates during engaging and dis-engaging, so far all seems fine.

Click to expand...

This statement would suggest that you believe that these are WET clutches. They are not. These are dry clutches. The need for lube is for the chain only. ATF is good because it is great for the chain and if any gets into the clutch, the effect will be less damaging then other oils. ANY oils in the clutch is bad. :!: Once in there, it must be manually removed via cleaning of the plates or replacing.

L.A.B. said:

click said:

I got all my 'bits' from RGM.

I got a clutch nut with a seal installed. It's quite a bit longer than the original nut. I rang RGM & they said this is the one the sell for the Commando so it is the correct one. I'm just being extra careful, has anybody fitted the RGM clutch centre nut? did it work ok?

Click to expand...

I bought the RGM nut, and it was too long, even without the washer!

I ended up re-fitting the Dave Comeau seal which I had been using previously.

Click to expand...

I am using the Comeau seal as well without the washer and had to file down the clutch nut about 1/16" so the seal would fit. I can't imagine why RGM would make that nut so long like that.

Hi Lads,

Interesting about the RGM nut! The reason I rang them was that something just did not feel right but they said I had the correct one.

I went ahead and test fitted the nut just to see what would happen. You can't get any adjustment from the clutch. The nut sticks out so far that the clutch adjusting bolt hits the nut before it hits the clutch rod!!!

I'm going to put the clutch back together with the original nut and order the Dave Comeau.

I'll contact RGM via email & ask how this nut is suppose to work!

All the best

Kevin

Here's a pics of the RGM nut fitted

Is there enough room between the seal and the main shaft to allow you to shorten the nut a little ?
Cash

I had the same issue with the RGM seal, Also fitted Dave's seal. I also wondered how could it work like this? I thought it was just something different with my belt drive system, Also RGM.

cash said:

Is there enough room between the seal and the main shaft to allow you to shorten the nut a little ?
Cash

Click to expand...

Hi Cash,

I think the nut could be made work but I've sent an email to RGM asking them can they explain how it works. I only sent the email today so I'm awaiting their reply.

Another solution would be a longer clutch rod!!

It sounds like at least a four members, including myself, have had an issue with this nut.

More anon

Kevin

Pull your clutch lever to see how far the rod will be exposed. If that is it, it cannot be right and you do not want to disturb the geometry of the actuator on the other side from the norm. Does it interfere with the diaphram? If the rod come out with the clutch lever pulled, how much?

pvisseriii said:

Pull your clutch lever to see how far the rod will be exposed. If that is it, it cannot be right and you do not want to disturb the geometry of the actuator on the other side from the norm. Does it interfere with the diaphram?

Click to expand...

Hi,

The pic above is with the lever pulled in & adjusted fully out, the clutch rod just comes to the lip of the seal, if anything its slightly inside the seal!

Kevin

The RGM nut looks as if it would be more suitable for a Dominator/Atlas clutch?

Here's the Dave Comeau version Dommi/Atlas nut:
http://atlanticgreen.com/ddacrs.htm

L.A.B. said:

The RGM nut looks as if it would be more suitable for a Dominator/Atlas clutch?

Here's the Dave Comeau version Dommi/Atlas nut:
http://atlanticgreen.com/ddacrs.htm

Click to expand...

Hi L.A.B.,

By george I think you have done it again :mrgreen:

My initial reaction on seeing the nut was, it was not the correct nut for the Commando but after ringing RGM they convinced me I had the correct one!

The pics of the Dommi/Atlas nut look identical in size to the nut I got from RGM. As I said previously I'm awaiting a reply from RGM.

Many thanks for the info. above.

Kevin

Hi,

I've started putting the clutch back together with the original nut.

Now the clutch actuating arm in the gearbox has slipped down :cry:

I've tried 'jiggling' it with a niddle nose pliers to pull it back into it's original position (45 degrees)

I found a great pic that L.A.B. posted showing the correct angle, so I know what it should be like.

Is there any 'nack' to getting this arm back into place?

Should I just pull up & push forward or pull back? or just do the hokey pokey & turn around :mrgreen:

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Kevin

Click said, "Should I just pull up & push forward or pull back? or just do the hokey pokey & turn around?"
No but you may want to push against the rod from the other side to help find and hold it in the right position. Is the cable still attached? This actuater can be re positioned with the clutch assembled. The adjuster screw and locking nut will be the last to go on to the clutch and for final adjustment.

Do you feel (or smell) the presents of gearbox lube in your clutch? I ask this to see if you had a problem in this respect in the first place. I put axle grease on the clutch rod before I slip it in. This helps seal the area just in case there is an issue. Was the oil level in the primary too high? How much did you drain? Although some people have had issues with gearbox oil getting through, it's not all that common. Because you have bronze plates and are now a clutch expert, I would go with the original set up and relieve yourself of that goofy nut which is obviously not right for your application.
Remember, 40 ft lb and a little locktite for the clutch center nut.

pvisseriii said:

Click said, "Should I just pull up & push forward or pull back? or just do the hokey pokey & turn around?"
No but you may want to push against the rod from the other side to help find and hold it in the right position. Is the cable still attached? This actuater can be re positioned with the clutch assembled. The adjuster screw and locking nut will be the last to go on to the clutch and for final adjustment.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Clutch is back together, adjuster bolt & nut are backed off.

Cable is not in arm.

When I 'jiggle' the arm it won't move up which seems to be the direction it needs to move in.

I'm going to take the advise I tend to give others at this point, take a break & come back to the problem relaxed & calm :lol:

I've had the clutch pressure plate off at least 5 times today trying different variations on the RGM 'nut' issue and I've cleaned all the plates, I think I've done enough work on the Norton for today :roll:

I'll try the trick with the clutch rod you suggested.

More anon

Kevin

pvisseriii said:

Do you feel (or smell) the presents of gearbox lube in your clutch? I ask this to see if you had a problem in this respect in the first place. I put axle grease on the clutch rod before I slip it in. This helps seal the area just in case there is an issue. Was the oil level in the primary too high? How much did you drain? Although some people have had issues with gearbox oil getting through, it's not all that common. Because you have bronze plates and are now a clutch expert, I would go with the original set up and relieve yourself of that goofy nut which is obviously not right for your application.
Remember, 40 ft lb and a little locktite for the clutch center nut.

Click to expand...

Hi,

I think I could smell gearbox oil on the clutch plates. Good tip about the grease, it's got to help, I was going to use some silicone sealer, create a seal around the rod, wait for it to set & move the rod back & forth a few time so that it is not stuck in the silicone. My only fear about this is if the silicone pops out! but where can it go, it more than likely will get chewed up by the chain or am I not being cautious enough?

Oil level was too high, I took out 450ml, manual says 200ml. The bike was serviced by a big name classic bike company in Wales (sort of narrows it down!) they could have overfilled the primary but I'm not sure. The only thing I'm sure about is that there was not 250ml of gearbox oil in the primary!!

The bike does wetsump so one of my theories is that the oil has 'leaked' from the sump to the primary.

Goofy nut will not be used, 40 ft lb & loctite for the clutch nut duly noted.

Although I've had the bike for just a year I've not really got a chance to use it. I got a really good service done on the bike, all fluids, carbs setup, new Sparx EI installed etc. & got the bike back in December. Since then I've been working my way through a few minor bits & pieces & then the clutch thing happened!

Overall I'm very happy with the bike, I expected to get my hands dirty, it's all part of the 'fun' of ownership. I'm learning lots from you guys & the bits I'm doing, so it's all good

Many thanks for your helpful comments.

Kevin

click said:

pvisseriii said:

I'll try the trick with the clutch rod you suggested.

More anon

Kevin

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

FYI
This is a finger thing.

Sweet dreams, (mountain roads)

On some bike (some Bultacos comes to mind) the pushrod is actually a two piece affair with a ball bearing between the two pieces. This prevents oil from migrating.

I'd go with the grease before I'd try silicone. Silicone has it's place (usually where you can get both hands on them, but I digress) and this might not be the right place. Not that you're worried about it getting loose, rather that it may cause extra drag.

Hi Lads,

Had a nice cup of tea & went at it again, this time I had a long nose pliers on the cable hook on the arm & managed to get a small screwdriver under the cam plate & gave it a nudge, that allowed the arm to pop up & go into the 45degree angle I could then push the clutch rod in to keep it in place.

So far so good!

Went through the adjustment settings, small movement in arm, adjust clutch bolt in until it bumps against the rod, back off one turn. Adjust clutch lever with small gap.

Perfect . . . . Unfortunantly not

Clutch is still sticking!!!!!!!

Bike in gear, clutch lever pulled in, rear brake on, push down on kickstart, rear wheel moves!!

I assembled the clutch plates in the same order they came out. I'm going to check over all my work again to see if I missed anything.

I might pop up a video of the clutch operating. I'd like you guys to see if the clutch deflection is what you would expect.

No more work tonight. I'll wait till tomorrow.

More anon

Kevin