'72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ideas!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

If you at all suspect of the provenance of the battery I would replace it. My Commando has a Rita ignition and the PO explained to me a similar problem he had with the bike. With the Lucas you have to swap out the 12 volt coils for 6v units. He had not done that and it would run like garbage after 10 or 15 minutes. That being said my next step after a new battery would be the coils.
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

phil yates said:
I'm not going to usurp PJ's rightful position to answer the suggestions.
But for my own verification I'll ask some questions:

"Rocker pipe oil feed ? Ignition details ?"

Rocker pipe oil feed??
What the……? How does this stop a motor after ten miles?
Ignition details?…..Read PJ's post. He told you.


Another easy check would be to check the Volts of the battery (1HR ?) after finished for the day. Then check prior to start up the "next" time. That may be next day or next week but the battery must be within .02-3volts (guessing) and at least 12.7volts+

Do you run/ride with lights on??????

Im thinking battery wont hold a charge.....

Let the battery rest for a while and it will naturally build volts "a Bit" and recover enough to ride on after a short stop ????

BAsically im thinking the battery is disfunctional!!

Havivg said that im a electrical "Baffoon" as previously stated..

The battery is good. PJ told you that.
Dysfunctional!!! ???
What is a dysfunctional battery?
It's good or it's bad. I think you might be dipping a toe into the psychology of batteries.
I'm backing electrics, but battery? Ridiculous!! Read the symptoms.
Electrical "buffoon"? Interesting comment. Did someone call you an electrical buffoon? Who was it??

Give PJ a break lads, he's an intelligent man and certainly doesn't need to be told what "free flowing fuel" from his fuel tank should look like. He's a Triumph restorer. I'm sure he knows his way around a motorcycle.

Read his posts first before asking him to repeat things he has already told you he has done. And what equipment is on the machine.

Phil
Click to expand...

Well said Phil, PJ is an intelligent bloke and, as you have also pointed out, an experienced motorcycle mechanic.

So, let HIM decide what advice to take and what to disregard.

PJ asked for input, and he's getting it. And ultimately, with the help of this forum, he will fix his bike. Many people have benefitted from the help given on this forum for many years.

You have put your thoughts forward, and you may well be correct. But you have NO RIGHT at all to be telling anyone to not give their advice.

You are not the self appointed moderator of this site, nor are you some kind of dictator of Norton-ology... so back off!
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

I have no idea why I said rocker feed. My mind was on my own leak from it when I checked the thread status. Interupted by wife then. But thinking about the thread now might as well throw rocker feed into the equasion as there seems to be a plethora of suggestions. :|
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Fast Eddie said:
phil yates said:
I'm not going to usurp PJ's rightful position to answer the suggestions.
But for my own verification I'll ask some questions:

"Rocker pipe oil feed ? Ignition details ?"

Rocker pipe oil feed??
What the……? How does this stop a motor after ten miles?
Ignition details?…..Read PJ's post. He told you.


Another easy check would be to check the Volts of the battery (1HR ?) after finished for the day. Then check prior to start up the "next" time. That may be next day or next week but the battery must be within .02-3volts (guessing) and at least 12.7volts+

Do you run/ride with lights on??????

Im thinking battery wont hold a charge.....

Let the battery rest for a while and it will naturally build volts "a Bit" and recover enough to ride on after a short stop ????

BAsically im thinking the battery is disfunctional!!

Havivg said that im a electrical "Baffoon" as previously stated..

The battery is good. PJ told you that.
Dysfunctional!!! ???
What is a dysfunctional battery?
It's good or it's bad. I think you might be dipping a toe into the psychology of batteries.
I'm backing electrics, but battery? Ridiculous!! Read the symptoms.
Electrical "buffoon"? Interesting comment. Did someone call you an electrical buffoon? Who was it??

Give PJ a break lads, he's an intelligent man and certainly doesn't need to be told what "free flowing fuel" from his fuel tank should look like. He's a Triumph restorer. I'm sure he knows his way around a motorcycle.

Read his posts first before asking him to repeat things he has already told you he has done. And what equipment is on the machine.

Phil
Click to expand...

Well said Phil, PJ is an intelligent bloke and, as you have also pointed out, an experienced motorcycle mechanic.

So, let HIM decide what advice to take and what to disregard.

PJ asked for input, and he's getting it. And ultimately, with the help of this forum, he will fix his bike. Many people have benefitted from the help given on this forum for many years.

You have put your thoughts forward, and you may well be correct. But you have NO RIGHT at all to be telling anyone to not give their advice.

You are not the self appointed moderator of this site, nor are you some kind of dictator of Norton-ology... so back off!
Click to expand...

Norton-ology??
I don't know that one.
Essentially I was asking that he not be asked to check things he already had. It gives the strong impression the suggester hasn't even read his post. That is just ignorance and should not be in this forum.

I'm not a self appointed anything. I don't hand out prizes either. Nor suffer fools gladly.
I could be very wrong. So could everyone else. Discussing the possibilities between us might help PJ sort what's likely and what's not.

I'm sure he knows what fuel coming out of his tank should look like. He might be a so called "newbie" to this forum,
but don't treat him like a child. And don't call him "the guy" when referring to him. It sounds awful.

Other than that Eddie, good post.
I like it.

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

The battery is the heart of your electrical system. All kinds of Norton wierdnesses occur when this item goes south. And we are not even mentioning old crummy connectors. Drove to east Cherry beach Sunday music fest today on Crazy Combat , then beers at Disillery new Mex. restaurant , then home , Alma screemed with joy twice when I cracked the throttle on Lakeshore ! :)
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Torontonian said:
The battery is the heart of your electrical system. All kinds of Norton wierdnesses occur when this item goes south. And we are not even mentioning old crummy connectors. Drove to east Cherry beach Sunday music fest today on Crazy Combat , then beers at Disillery new Mex. restaurant , then home , Alma screemed with joy twice when I cracked the throttle on Lakeshore ! :)
Click to expand...

And the third scream was in terror?
Who is Alma?
Wife, girlfriend, cat or bike?
Was the scream connected to the battery, or the battery connected to the screaming whatever?
Photos please, we all love photos!

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Alma be my wifey. A very pretty good gurl ,very much like Crazy Combat. Quirky yet rewarding. We blasted thru Toronto downtown today Sunday light traffic due to road closures from runs to fight cancer etc. Fuel killer priced now so ran tank dry on home so hope greedy types lower it monday.
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Torontonian said:
Alma be my wifey. A very pretty good gurl ,very much like Crazy Combat. Quirky yet rewarding. We blasted thru Toronto downtown today Sunday light traffic due to road closures from runs to fight cancer etc. Fuel killer priced now so ran tank dry on home so hope greedy types lower it monday.
Click to expand...

If you have a genuinely lovely lady (I do too) the world just sings in harmony with you.
The birds sing and the neighbour's dog doesn't poo on your lawn.
But a Japo Crapo still looks as bad as ever!

Went to Toronto once, met a girl in Hawai and she was Canadian.
But I didn't realise she wanted to marry me until I got there, so bolted back to Oz, real fast.
In hind sight, perhaps I should have married her and avoided the misery I later went through!

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Hi Gents - sorry for the delay in responding, but between work and other tasks - well, you know how it goes.sometimes! Let me start by saying I appreciate each and every suggestion given by you folks. I absolutely take no offense whatsoever to any idea which may sound simple in nature - even though I've been doing this for quite some time, a lot of times it's the simple things that get overlooked. So feel free to suggest away! Well, I changed out the jets in the carb, took off the tank and once again cleaned it out. I put 90 degree adapters on the petcocks to take out some of the length and curve on the fuel lines. I then took out the Boyer, which was a MkIII and appeared to be somewhat of an older unit. The single coil was held in a fabricated mount made by the PO. Attached to this mount was a horn, which seems to be a good idea. The only problem was the screw holding the horn bracket protruded into the ring holding the coil, and that ring itself was a little too large to secure the coil itself. So there's a screw head dent in the side of the coil. I don't know whether that would contribute to my issues, but it's been replaced by the dual fire that comes with the Power Arc. Got.it all wired up and dialed it in according to the directions. Then, it decided to rain!!! Work again tomorrow, so weather permitting Wednesday after I check the valves she'll be ready for a test run. If this doesn't remedy the issues, there's not a whole lot else that could be an issue with the exception of the battey. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted.

PJ
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

PJ Martel said:
Hi Gents - sorry for the delay in responding, but between work and other tasks - well, you know how it goes.sometimes! Let me start by saying I appreciate each and every suggestion given by you folks. I absolutely take no offense whatsoever to any idea which may sound simple in nature - even though I've been doing this for quite some time, a lot of times it's the simple things that get overlooked. So feel free to suggest away! Well, I changed out the jets in the carb, took off the tank and once again cleaned it out. I put 90 degree adapters on the petcocks to take out some of the length and curve on the fuel lines. I then took out the Boyer, which was a MkIII and appeared to be somewhat of an older unit. The single coil was held in a fabricated mount made by the PO. Attached to this mount was a horn, which seems to be a good idea. The only problem was the screw holding the horn bracket protruded into the ring holding the coil, and that ring itself was a little too large to secure the coil itself. So there's a screw head dent in the side of the coil. I don't know whether that would contribute to my issues, but it's been replaced by the dual fire that comes with the Power Arc. Got.it all wired up and dialed it in according to the directions. Then, it decided to rain!!! Work again tomorrow, so weather permitting Wednesday after I check the valves she'll be ready for a test run. If this doesn't remedy the issues, there's not a whole lot else that could be an issue with the exception of the battey. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted.

PJ
Click to expand...

Happy for any or all ideas PJ?
It's your tires mate.
Wrong bloody tires.
I'll put $200 on it.

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Here's how the coil was mounted
 

Attachments

  • '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ideas!
    20140602_140720_resized_1.jpg
    233.9 KB · Views: 208
  • '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ideas!
    20140602_140407_resized.jpg
    308.3 KB · Views: 208
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

NOT SURE ABOUT THOSE TWO DINTS IN THE COIL JACKET :!: some times a short can happen if the alloy jacket is pressed onto the internal wiring.
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

John - that was my thinking too. Don't know if it would be the root cause, but it certainly can't hurt to switch out a non secured dinged up coil.

PJ
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

I had a norton 650 ss, that had your problem..started OK..ish :roll: Reved clean in the lower gears then went into limp home mode after 3-6 miles...never sorted it..



PJ Martel said:
John - that was my thinking too. Don't know if it would be the root cause, but it certainly can't hurt to switch out a non secured dinged up coil.

PJ
Click to expand...
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

john robert bould said:
I had a norton 650 ss, that had your problem..started OK..ish :roll: Reved clean in the lower gears then went into limp home mode after 3-6 miles...never sorted it..



PJ Martel said:
John - that was my thinking too. Don't know if it would be the root cause, but it certainly can't hurt to switch out a non secured dinged up coil.

PJ
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

John
That's not good news for PJ. I had a closer look at my single coil set up. Mine is an eeny weeny little black coil so obviously a different set up to PJ's. Sorry I sound ignorant about my set up but I am. My bike was built nearly six years ago and Baxter's can't fully recall exactly all of what they installed. But I haven't yet asked them about the ignition system. My bike was built now some six years back for a guy who put ten miles on it and came back to Baxter's saying he felt like a Rocket III instead. Anyone wanting a Rocket III over a Commando should be put in a Rocket IV and fired into space with no return fuel. But my good luck. I purchased the bike from Baxters late last year. The description provided to me was "solid state reg/rec, electronic ignition with a single dual-lead coil". So Boyer? I don't know but can find out. All I can say is, it works real fine.

My point being, before you buy another coil PJ, let's explore options for purchase such as mine or others. If you are going to spend the money, and I personally think you have little choice but to do so as the process of elimination unfortunately can get to this, you might be much better off upgrading what you have at the same time. Others in here could probably already tell me what my set up is from my description, maybe not. I'll look harder into it. I'd hang ten on the coil purchase until someone has a better, possibly even cheaper alternative.

I'll get back to you regardless PJ.

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

These problems..ie; going down to limp home mode. can be a right pain in th rear to solve..i would be looking at things that change with heat...the fact most commando's run fine is just more frustrating.. electrics dont like heat, nor do carbs..even pistons expand and cause tightening ..valves can go tight in the guides,or loose clearance's..it will be something simple..it always is!
My wifes car developed a bad case of smoking...the experts ,and some where diesel fitters suggested every thing....ECU, Turbo, pump, injectors ..state of the art equipment was used...i was charged £140 for the experts to solve it..nothing corrected it...a garage even suggested broken rings...etc etc etc..
After many hours, even swapped out the ECU....then i found a "rubbed" through wire! it advanced the diesel pump timing..the car was just running retarded! The wire was just earthing on the body work...So much for Experts!!!! simple eh? yet 6 men failed to find it!
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

john robert bould said:
These problems..ie; going down to limp home mode. can be a right pain in th rear to solve..i would be looking at things that change with heat...the fact most commando's run fine is just more frustrating.. electrics dont like heat, nor do carbs..even pistons expand and cause tightening ..valves can go tight in the guides,or loose clearance's..it will be something simple..it always is!
My wifes car developed a bad case of smoking...the experts ,and some where diesel fitters suggested every thing....ECU, Turbo, pump, injectors ..state of the art equipment was used...i was charged £140 for the experts to solve it..nothing corrected it...a garage even suggested broken rings...etc etc etc..
After many hours, even swapped out the ECU....then i found a "rubbed" through wire! it advanced the diesel pump timing..the car was just running retarded! The wire was just earthing on the body work...So much for Experts!!!! simple eh? yet 6 men failed to find it!
Click to expand...

And one guy couldn't find the problem on your 650ss.
Sorry John, don't yell at me. :)

My ex wife's car had a bad case of smoking too.
Finally traced it to someone sitting behind the wheel.

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

Phil The 650 ss was a bike from hell :twisted: no amount of messing put it right,,it felt like the fuel was being strangled after a few miles..imagin a gremlin slowly turning off the fuel when riding hard,,,getting slower..hotter and finaly bogging down to 60mph max :!: ...wouldn't rev above 5000 in top..change down two and presto the taco was boucing off 7500...back into top...and DURRRRR! I think it was grossly over geared?
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

john robert bould said:
Phil The 650 ss was a bike from hell :twisted: no amount of messing put it right,,it felt like the fuel was being strangled after a few miles..imagin a gremlin slowly turning off the fuel when riding hard,,,getting slower..hotter and finaly bogging down to 60mph max :!: ...wouldn't rev above 5000 in top..change down two and presto the taco was boucing off 7500...back into top...and DURRRRR! I think it was grossly over geared?
Click to expand...

Sounds just like my horse PeeJay out on the farm.
He would behave just like this every time I got on him to ride.
One day he threw me and charged off into the dam for a swim.
Ex wife was screaming, get in there and rescue him!!
Me? Rescue a horse???
I walked back home and had a beer.

I don't know what you eventually did with your nightmare.
I sold one of mine.
And divorced the other.

Phil
 
Re: '72 Norton bogs down after less than 10 miles - need ide

PJ Martel said:
One additional bit of info on this problem - when she starts having the issues I've described, I'll stop and shut her down for about 10 minutes. She'll start right up, and run just fine for 6-10 miles before the issues return.

PJ
Click to expand...

This is definitive of a temperature induced problem. You could get a CO2 fire extinguisher, or can of refrigerant and rig up some sort of nozzle on the can, then when it acts up, direct the cold gasses from the CO2 or refrigerant at selective parts, Eg the coils, ign box, points or sensor, etc. If you can get it to run normally after such a burst, you will be homing in on the gremlin.

If you have an air compressor in your shop, stay close to home until it acts up, then drive home, you may get sufficient cooling effect from a compressed air nozzle....cheap and plentiful, and easily directed at one target part at a time.

My list of example parts shows I am leaning towards an electrical component, but cold blast mechanical parts too. Don't forget switches and relays.

Slick
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top