72 Combat identification

Jabberwocky said:

Mostly because the bike is being advertised as "not restored, true survivor". Strictly speaking it does not say that it is original nor does it mention matching numbers or anything about an engine rebuild.

The gearbox number is 149160 (I think). Curiouser and curiouser.

The owner states it has original paint and factory Dunstall pipes. My guess is it blew up and was rebuilt.

So the question comes to what is it worth? I really don't mind that the numbers don't match so long as it's been repaired well, but the way it's being pitched I think it's overpriced.

Regardless, it will need to be torn down unless build receipts are available.

I will not get a chance to see the bike in person as it's too far away. There are just enough inconsistencies that I think the fair weather course is to quietly back out of the room, give my head a shake and grab a pint.

As Kommando says "another one will turn up".

Thanks for the insight.

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If it's being sold as original then that's clearly wrong

The question is what needs to be done to the bike and how far you plan to take the restoration. If it is in good shape and you plan to ride it as is then 6K probably isn't that bad of a deal and if you rode it a few years you could probably get most of your money back. If however you have to put another 4k into it there is no way you will have a bike worth 10K without the matching numbers. In other words the pricier the bike the more it matters. IMHO the whole matching numbers bit is ridiculous when you are replacing like with like. I think it all started with Corvette restorers where somebody would blow up the original high performance engine and replace it with one from a station wagon. I sold a Trident this spring with a set of earlier cases, completely restored. I'd say I took around a 1 to 2k hit because of the non matching numbers.

htown16 said:

IMHO the whole matching numbers bit is ridiculous when you are replacing like with like.

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Agreed but think of a penny and a coin collector. A penny is worth a penny as money. But a 1909-S V.D.B penny is worth between $2000 and $5000 depending on condition and how bad the buyer wants one for his collection.

Take all emotion away and our bikes are junk long past their time. They have value because we want them. Some of us want them as original as possible - it's "our thing". On the other hand, I bought out a guy's Norton collection one time and he was proud that he cobbled each bike together - nothing matched - and things like handlebar switches were the cheapest thing he could find on Amazon. His thing was making something out of a pile of Norton junk.

If I were 18 today, I might again walk into a Triumph shop wanting a new bike and leave with one two years old - then fast forward 54 years and they might still be my bike (had it not been stolen). When it was stolen, I built one just like it from a basket case and saving pennies to buy parts - still have that bike.

I think a lot of people equate matching numbers with 'unmolested', which for a 40-50 year old machine would have to mean 'unridden' too...
Different engine number? Why?? Any more skeletons in the closet?
It will always matter to those it does, and prices will always reflect it, IMHO.
Common sense and practicality will play no part...

The term bitsa refers to a non matching machine. The inference in the past was “abused”. Maybe now that these are around 50 years old the bitsa is less likely abused and more just normal wear. However combat Commandos with matching numbers are still out there. For example mine that I bought in 1997 was put away in 1977 with a broken valve that didn’t cause any damage to numbered parts.

Perhaps I should ask how best to go about acheiving my goals.

I have never owned a British bike but have always wanted one. Norton being my preference. I enjoy working on stuff and getting a bike as close to original as possible is appealing. Especially if the $ value is positive. Something a bit unique is appealing, too rare is not.

It will be a fair weather rider but not a commuter.

I don't mind that it needs TLC, it's a bonding exercise and we'll have lots of time during Canadian winters to get aquainted. I have workshop, tools and your sage advice.

If you were me, how would you go about finding the right bike? Do you have any other advice?

Mike

Jabberwocky said:

Perhaps I should ask how best to go about acheiving my goals.

I have never owned a British bike but have always wanted one. Norton being my preference. I enjoy working on stuff and getting a bike as close to original as possible is appealing. Especially if the $ value is positive. Something a bit unique is appealing, too rare is not.

It will be a fair weather rider but not a commuter.

I don't mind that it needs TLC, it's a bonding exercise and we'll have lots of time during Canadian winters to get aquainted. I have workshop, tools and your sage advice.

If you were me, how would you go about finding the right bike? Do you have any other advice?

Mike

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Sounds like you know what you are looking for
There's a fair bit to learn with running and maintaining a commando compared to say a t140 triumph
But the Norton is a much better bike imo
I've never really understood the matching numbers thing
Years ago it didn't exist,the only thing you'd be concerned with was whether the numbers matched the log book
I've never bought a bike as an investment so it doesn't affect me
Just look for a bike that's complete and in good order
Think of your budget then double it and you won't go far wrong

Jabberwocky , I sold my 3#’s matching Combat last fall , went to Kingston Ont. …. a guy I know here has his 850 listed on Kijiji , done up in first year style body work looks very good …. Keith is honest old school bike guy for sure , he did all restoration work himself ( always room to make it yours) …. his price is fair , think maybe close to what mine brought in …. you maybe take a look , Kijiji Truro, Nova Scotia … you would be starting from a very good place as far as bike goes , good luck !

Jabberwocky said:

Perhaps I should ask how best to go about acheiving my goals.

I have never owned a British bike but have always wanted one. Norton being my preference. I enjoy working on stuff and getting a bike as close to original as possible is appealing. Especially if the $ value is positive. Something a bit unique is appealing, too rare is not.

It will be a fair weather rider but not a commuter.

I don't mind that it needs TLC, it's a bonding exercise and we'll have lots of time during Canadian winters to get aquainted. I have workshop, tools and your sage advice.

If you were me, how would you go about finding the right bike? Do you have any other advice?

Mike

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So, I know a guy with a decent 850 that runs and rides well, is matching numbers and is asking a reasonable price (actually too little). It would be a no brainer if you were in the US. How hard is it to import one to CA from the US? I know shipping costs in the US, don't know to CA - have the restrictions been lifted?

If interested let me know and I'll connect the two of you.

Basics are, if you want a 750, this particular one has a '71 case motor in a '72 frame. Said engine is suspect as far as Combat 2S cam or head. Carbs would have to be 932 if Amals. All missing items would discount price.
If none of the Combat engine pieces are in the engine, it's a '71 with an upgraded front brake and sidestand and hopefully, a real oil filter. Price accordingly. I don't think the asking price is ridiculous, if you want a 750 Commando, it is a good vintage.

Here you go

Jabberwocky said:

Perhaps I should ask how best to go about acheiving my goals.

I have never owned a British bike but have always wanted one. Norton being my preference. I enjoy working on stuff and getting a bike as close to original as possible is appealing. Especially if the $ value is positive. Something a bit unique is appealing, too rare is not.

It will be a fair weather rider but not a commuter.

I don't mind that it needs TLC, it's a bonding exercise and we'll have lots of time during Canadian winters to get aquainted. I have workshop, tools and your sage advice.

If you were me, how would you go about finding the right bike? Do you have any other advice?

Mike

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Tell us more about your mechanical skills?
What are the most involved/challenging repairs you ever done on bike/cars?
Any failed repairs? Can you explain the difference between volts & amps?

These Q's are relevant, and also describe your idea of "TLC"...
Adjusting chain?
Brake pad replacement?

Do you LIKE doing this stuff?
Help us help you...

concours said:

Tell us more about your mechanical skills?
What are the most involved/challenging repairs you ever done on bike/cars?
Any failed repairs? Can you explain the difference between volts & amps?

These Q's are relevant, and also describe your idea of "TLC"...
Adjusting chain?
Brake pad replacement?

Do you LIKE doing this stuff?
Help us help you...

Click to expand...

Last year of high school I single handed overhauled the industrial arts instructor's Triumph Herald. I think he must have disliked me to assign me the task. Included removing engine, transmission, drive train, etc. Shortened the frame and drive shaft. Total engine rebuild. Honed cylinders, valves, etc. It goes on.
Managed to get it all back together using the most affordable solution available. Was instructed not to send anything out for repair, but was allowed new bushings, bearings, rings. Everything else had to be reused or made. I recall sand casting something, but it must not have been anything serious.

I did not get it started, but during the next term they got it going. Something to do with a misaligned distributor, or so I was told.

That was a few decades ago. Worked on snowmobiles, ATVs, chainsaws, autos, etc over the intervening years. I've had some successes, some failures. Am currently repairing my Unisaw.

I'm not the best welder, but I know a few.
I have a multi-meter if that helps.

And yes, I do like tearing things apart. It's even better if they work when I put them back together. I do have a box of leftover bits and bobs though

TLC of an old Brit bike? Just how bad can it be?

It’s a labour of love …..

Jabberwocky said:

Last year of high school I single handed overhauled the industrial arts instructor's Triumph Herald. I think he must have disliked me to assign me the task. Included removing engine, transmission, drive train, etc. Shortened the frame and drive shaft. Total engine rebuild. Honed cylinders, valves, etc. It goes on.
Managed to get it all back together using the most affordable solution available. Was instructed not to send anything out for repair, but was allowed new bushings, bearings, rings. Everything else had to be reused or made. I recall sand casting something, but it must not have been anything serious.

I did not get it started, but during the next term they got it going. Something to do with a misaligned distributor, or so I was told.

That was a few decades ago. Worked on snowmobiles, ATVs, chainsaws, autos, etc over the intervening years. I've had some successes, some failures. Am currently repairing my Unisaw.

I'm not the best welder, but I know a few.
I have a multi-meter if that helps.

And yes, I do like tearing things apart. It's even better if they work when I put them back together. I do have a box of leftover bits and bobs though

TLC of an old Brit bike? Just how bad can it be?

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That's the attitude. You'll do fine!
Engine & trans blew up more than once in a while. Matching numbers isn't the end all. But, "suitable for purpose" is important.
Decide first if you want a Roadster, interstate, 750 or 850 (big difference in power delivery characteristics) etc.
it'll come to you

It does not really matter, but my preference is for a bit of a sleeper. A bike that those in the know would smile and nod at. With a closer look they would see everything is well sorted.

The fact that it requires care and attention to perform at its best is part of the joy, like any good relationship.

You can go the stock with numbers etc route or the upgrade route. The upgrade route is a lot more fun and exciting in my opinion. If you have an early model that will accept a new Joe Hunt magneto behind the cylinders for example - that would be a head turner, and an easy starter, plus you could ditch the battery and replace it with a Pazon.

marshg246 said:

So, I know a guy with a decent 850 that runs and rides well, is matching numbers and is asking a reasonable price (actually too little). It would be a no brainer if you were in the US. How hard is it to import one to CA from the US? I know shipping costs in the US, don't know to CA - have the restrictions been lifted?

If interested let me know and I'll connect the two of you.

Click to expand...

I'm interested. But never start a sentence with "I know a guy..."

Best I saw was a ' Field Find ' 73 hi rider , went for $ 800 odd .

Depends on your game . Blowing off Hondas , or pottering around the woods , or Interstate etc etc .

I dont like the E S , as is weightier .

LOW HOURS , One Owner , Factory Build , NEVER DISASSEMBLED . And youve got the basics for a rip snorter .

Going . 10 to 15 minutes - to tempertature - Redline 3 to 6 times - See the Brakes arnt wobbly on FULL aplication .

Glare severely all over the frame for wrinkles & cracks . 10 minutes NOT an ildle glance . Half restos are AMATURE
and theyre learning & half are ham fisted gits . Hence Test Ride . Value is about 1/2 of total parts value on a basket case
as youll find half are not A1 useable .

A V Good late Case injun , A V good late box or way better a 5 speed , good chaincase & your underway .
Id do alloy injun plates , Beefed frame , NON stock carbs , intakes , cleaners & oil tanks , etc etc etc .

A unmolested sub 10.000 mile engine is worth its weight in gold , or copper . or something . maybe .

Theres a lot of long term owner dialed in suckers coming up these days , as theyre legless & cant start them .

BasicaLLY , IT SHOULD GO LIKE STINK , STOP , STEER & CORNER WITH DASH & ELAN . And theyre a lot quicker
than youd think . A good one . To quick almost . Tall ( 130 or better ) gearing & firsts way to high .
You let the car in front get out near a length before you get underway . Ticly with stock brakes . Hence 5 SPEED reqd.
or 6 .

Youd trow half the stock bits out on a full overhaul on a tired example . Last 750 & early 850s my prefered species .

Craig said:

Here you go

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Hi Craig,
I see Keith's kijiji ad. Pics look good.