71 0r 72 ???

220000 is an interesting number, according to the "official" records that would make it the first 750 MkV supposedly built in March 1973.

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But of course, we know that is not true! :roll: 220808 - build date Nov. 1972 and 221296 - build date Dec. 1972 reside in my shop!

October 1972 seems right to me for 220000 and the first MkV 750. So, what cam was in it when you tore it down? It would not surprise me if Norton used up the last of the Combat "C" stamped heads before using the RH6 heads. But I would be surprised if they put the 2S cam in them due to all the problems they had with them.

Does your bike have the 5 plate 850-style clutch?

The cases have never been split - at least since England.

I've seen the "C" on the head but until recently when I discovered this site, I never knew to look for a "RH" number on the head, or for that matter, to question what cam it has; I just "knew" it is a Combat because of the "C", the 32 Amals, the black cylinder, and the close gap between head and cylinder.

I suppose I could pull an exhaust valve cover to check lift with a dial indicator or even check opening and closing with a degree wheel. Checking lift would be quickest and easiest - is it different?

I've never had to go into the clutch (at least that I can remember) but it is sticking right now - hard to find neutral - so I may make a puller and clean the plates, and let you know.

Ron L said:

October 1972 seems right to me for 220000 and the first MkV 750.

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But I think we are aware that a certain number of Commandos were built to "MkV" spec. (supposedly from serial 212278) from October-November 1972? A Norton Service release, N3/28 (informing dealers about the new bronze clutch plates and hardened clutch centre fitted from 212278) appears to confirm that serial number date.

Also service release N3/38 informing dealers of the new type of box head steady fitted from serial number 220000 is dated February 1973 (actually it's dated "February 1773" but I think we must regard that as an error!) so it would seem odd for the service release to be issued in February if the 220000 series bikes had been manufactured in October/November '72 unless perhaps they were not dispatched at that time. Service Release N3/33 detailing the change to a new type of stellite tipped valves from serial 221317 is dated Feb. '73.
So, is there any documentation that would prove without any shadow of a doubt that these 22**** serial models were actually in stock at Norton dealers-or "on the road" before March '73?

xbacksideslider said:

Since there seemed to be some skepticism about #220000, some more pics -
32mm carbs

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"32mm carbs" would have been standard from serial 211110 anyway-regardless of whether it was a true Combat model or not (Service Release N3/23, Sept. '72).

Also service release N3/38 informing dealers of the new type of box head steady fitted from serial number 220000 is dated February 1973 (actually it's dated "February 1773" but I think we must regard that as an error!) so it would seem odd for the service release to be issued in February if the 220000 series bikes had been manufactured in October/November '72 unless perhaps they were not dispatched at that time.

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Yes, that's another mystery. I have that service release also. Interestingly, 220808 arrived at the dealer with the standard head steady (which cracked after about a year and later was replaced with the box section. When I acquired 221296 in the late '80's it also had the flat plate head steady (also cracked).

I agree it is possible that the MkV was not dispatched to the dealers until February (March?) 1973, as I took delivery of 220808 on May 6, 1973 at Competition Accessories in Xenia, Ohio. However, with the state of the business in 1972-73 it seems unlikely they would stockpile production from November until February or March before dispatch?

My experience with Norton's record keeping is they were much more concerned with selling than documenting. If Commando records are strange, you should try P11's!

This is all an academic exercise, because the important thing is to enjoy what we have!

Ron L said:

However, with the state of the business in 1972-73 it seems unlikely they would stockpile production from November until February or March before dispatch?

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Considering the state that just about the whole of the British manufacturing industry appeared to be in at a time of high inflation, rocketing oil prices, low productivity, with strikes and other industrial action over pay being an almost daily occurrence in one sector of British industry or another (which got pretty bad as the miners' strike* resulted in British manufacturers only being able to work 3-days a week in order to conserve electricity, because the majority of British power stations were still coal-fired at that time) so there could have been any number of reasons for a delay in dispatch, as it may have been a situation beyond Norton-Villiers' control?

*
http://www.agor.org.uk/cwm/themes/event ... trikes.asp

Good point!

I see Roy Bacon has Mar 1973 for 220000, but also has it as a Roadster MkV, Hi-Rider Mk V and Interstate Mk V. I don't see how one VIN can be shipped as three different machines. My past '73 750 220627 showed Nov '72 mfg date which is in line with Ron's VIN and date as well as 220000 mfg date. From the few copies of pages of factory records I have, it's plain that the factory continued building '71 after already starting the '72 models...overlap occurred.

illf8ed said:

I see Roy Bacon has Mar 1973 for 220000, but also has it as a Roadster MkV, Hi-Rider Mk V and Interstate Mk V. I don't see how one VIN can be shipped as three different machines.

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But I don't think he is suggesting that there are three separate MkV models all with the same 220000 serial number? Only that production of the MkV Roadster, Hi-Rider and Interstate started at serial number 220000.

I was wrong.

Chasing my wobble, and planning fabrication of a heim joint head steady, I pulled the head steady off last night and found that there is no "C" on my head. It says RHB6. Don't know how I got it into my head that there was a "C" but there isn't.

I took pics but forgot to bring the darn fire wire so pics to follow.