69 "S" Phoenix rises again

Another note from the old geezer. I found out lately, last couple of days, that the bearings in my steering head are different than most I see on the forum. I have R&M 29LJT25 bearings which I find out are angular contact bearings. They will carry a load in both radial and axial directions. I read that most early head bearings were tapered rollers, but mine must be different. of course. I had already installed some standard 6205 sealed bearings, but discovered if I do that, I need a spacer to take care of the axial load. Not wanting to wait for parts or spend more money or try to find a correct spacer, I installed my originals back in the steering head after cleaning them thoroughly along with the felt seal, re-greased them and pressed them back into the head and everything is now back together except the front wheel and a few cables. Took me about 4-5 hours today. I'll finish it up tomorrow, Sunday.

Waiting on the battery from Clubman and if all is ready, call the insurance co. and get it titled and plated, and I should be ready for a test run on the pavement if the weather will cooperate.

I still seem to have a drip from the lower banjo for the rocker feed line. I'm really wondering if it's leaking from the line to the fitting, I took off the brass washers, heated them up with the propane torch, and sanded them flat. Still get a drip. It's the only drip from the engine oil lines so far. Of course the swing arm is dripping like anything since I overfilled it. I'll let it out tomorrow.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

I read that most early head bearings were tapered rollers, but mine must be different. of course.

Click to expand...

The factory never fitted taper rollers.

The early (pre-'71) steering head bearings were 'cup and cone', with separate inner and outer races and loose ball bearings between them, the same as you would normally find in bicycles or many other types of motorcycle steering heads.

http://www.graham.curtis.dsl.pipex.com/ ... eering.htm

Well, then someone must have changed the 'cup and cone' bearings in my bike before I bought it, because it has the angular contact bearings in it, although they are very similar. Anyone else have these type bearings? But somehow I doubt that happened, everything else seems to be just fine, but stranger things have happened. I'll check with a couple of 69 S guys I know.

Dave
69S

The original bearing parts as listed in the 1968-70 parts book are:

030097 x2 (frame ball race = cup)
030098 x2 (stem 'lug' and 'crown' race = cone)
000021 x36 (steering balls).

L.A.B.

Yes, I saw those part numbers, and there is nothing listed in the 'S' supplement that would make it any different. I just don't know since I didn't buy it new, but why would it be changed? Maybe someone didn't like them? When I pulled them out they didn't seem disturbed, but it's really hard to tell. Since I didn't have any problems with the angular contacts, I guess I'll go with them since I don't have a sleeve.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Yes, I saw those part numbers, and there is nothing listed in the 'S' supplement that would make it any different. I just don't know since I didn't buy it new, but why would it be changed?

Click to expand...

I don't know?

If there had been some sort of factory mid-season change to the bearing spec.-then it isn't listed, and I would have thought some of our other pre-71 model owning members would have said something by now-if they had also found those angular contact bearings?

I'll check with some of the other 69/70 'S' owners I know and report back, if they have any information. I have a list of 8 that I know of, just from this forum.

Dave
69S

Mine had 6205's and no spacer when i removed them so i had a spacer made.
Al

Hi All

If it helps, my bike - a 1970 Roadster is almost identical to the "S" - and was in near original condition when I bought it in 76. It definitely had the cup and cone bearings that LAB mentioned.

As part of the rebuild I've got some taper rollers from Mick Hemmings - not yet fitted -but hopefully they'll do the job

Cheers

DogT said:

OK, here's the video of starting on Monday, 10/11. I just couldn't get the .mov to play in my media player, but it seems fine in photobucket. This is not the first time we started it, maybe the 3rd or 4th time and you can see the car battery behind the rear wheel. Thanks to sidriley for the video.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Damn, I missed this somehow. What an excellent vid and nice set of pictures, big thumbs up. I still think you should ride it back to where you took that original photo of you and the bike when it was new and give the same pose. A then and now is priceless especially if you have kids.

No kids. Doesn't matter. I doubt if it's going to be this fall I ride it up to Greenbelt. That's going to be about an hour and a half, and lots of I66, I495, so I need to plan the time, I'm not going up there in heavy traffic. Maybe an early Sunday morning. I need a few hours on the road for shake down cruses. I'm dead in the water for now waiting on clutch cable. It's taking forever getting this thing on the pavement. Details, details. At least I have all the decals on it now and the primary cover, so it is ready for commissioning.

I need to get the wife to do a pic like this one, if only I looked that young.



Dave
69S

I threw the kids thing in there hoping it would motivate you, but I was wrong. Still think the before and after would be too cool, I'll let it go now, thanks for the excellent resto thread though.

Clint looks like a giant on that Norton. I know the Norton is small next to a modern bike, but it shure looks small in that picture.

Jean

Yeah, Jean, I'm 6', Clint must be 6'4" or more. The early Nortons were relatively small for their displacement. They still look very small compared to the boats I see on 2 wheels going down the road these days. I would hate to drop one of those behemoths, remind me of SUVs.

Dave
69S

Where did you get that photo? I loved that movie! Great shot of Clint and the bike, And the look on the kids face is great! Was this an ad?

I stole it from this guy http://www.pbase.com/coreyl/69_750s. I probably should have given him credit, but he also doesn't say where he got it. It was probably a promo poster for the movie, but I have been looking all over for it, and can't find it. It's a good shot of the 69 'S' and I'm betting it was Fireflake Blue, but I understand the Red was also Fireflake.

The weather is beating down on me here and still no clutch cable. It's going to be highs in the 50's at the end of the week, but we will have a few riding days into November.

Dave
69S

Thanks Dave, It's a really cool photo.

Started bike up today, adjusted primary chain, drive chain, brakes. The brakes took a while to get just right driving it around the front yard. This thing is a brute, didn't remember how it pulled and goes plenty fast in 1st gear, too much for front yard. Rear wheel spins easily in the gravel. Finally took it down the hill and up and down our driveway, around the barn about a mile and a half. Only able to get into 2nd gear on the driveway. I've forgotten how you feel each stroke as you pull away. No leak from the breather yet. Only a small dribble out of something around the pressure valve, I had trouble with that earlier, I may have to anneal the copper gaskets there again or hit it with the Hylomar. Couldn't get it back up the hill to the house, so parked it in the barn. Ugh, plenty of bugs down there, they like to get underneath everything so I didn't cover it, I masked off the carbs, breather and exhaust. I'll take it out a few more times this weekend for more shakedown, then tighten everything back up, adjust the valves, put the air cleaner on and see about getting plates.

Here's why I didn't get it back up the hill, loose gravel and a 20 degree slope.


Dave
69S

Dave,

Back to working on mine thanks to you! Congrats! The video is the greatest.
Installed oil tank and new wiring to the points last night. Beginning another "Norton Needs" list. Goal; To have it roadable for the gathering of the Nortons in April 2011, Washington's Crossing State park.

And by the way, Clint is actually fairly short. Camera angles and tall boots added to his stature. He's about 5' 7" My buddy met him in the late '60's while stationed in Calif. serving in the Navy and said he(Clint) was shorter than his (Joe's)5' 11" by a margin.
Great picture none the less and saved to the archives.

Tom

Tom, I hope you went to the original poster and saved it, I reduced it in PhotoShop, the original from the guy is 800x776. Yeah, I'll have to get my wife to get down low and get me on mine now that I have all the decals, shields and panels on. I'll probably have a video made on Saturday going down my drive from the barn. I really need to get it on the road and a good load on it to break in the rings. It's running strong though, more than I remember, but I'm not as strong or agile as I used to be.

Dave
69S