67Atlas nextstep

wjrich

Joined
Oct 7, 2012
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First off, thanks to all for getting me through my magneto rebuild, timing, and first start.

Went to ride it today and took at least 50 kicks to start with a lot of slight backfires and kickbacks. Once started, rode about 2 miles and it stalled. Many kicks with slight backfires and kickbacks again, but got it running enough to get back home.

It would seem obvious to me that I didn't time it properly. Went 11/32 nds BTDC, rotated points until cigarette paper slid out from between them. Snugged down the jammed open auto advance, removed the item holding it open, put timing cover back on and after a lot of kicking, popping, slight backfiring and kicking back, it started and ran smoothly.

The bike eventually starts, so I know I'm close.
Used the 11/32 nds measured on a small dowel held straight up and down. Didn't use my degree wheel cause I couldn't figure out how to mount it without interfering with the stator wires- don't have access to tools to make adapters, so the dowel made the best sense.

Kicking back- timing too advanced? Too retarded?
Is that guy from Italy still looking to buy an Atlas? May need to sell it to pay for my artificial knee after all this...
 
wjrich said:
It would seem obvious to me that I didn't time it properly. Went 11/32 nds BTDC, rotated points until cigarette paper slid out from between them. Snugged down the jammed open auto advance, removed the item holding it open, put timing cover back on
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You missed out the part where you re-checked the timing after tightening the auto advance nut.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
You missed out the part where you re-checked the timing after tightening the auto advance nut.
Click to expand...

Yes indeedy, very important.
Checking the timing on EACH cylinder too.

I'd comment that I'd NEVER go for a ride on a bike that needed 50 kicks to start.
I learned that lesson as a young lad - wore out the kickstarter too.
Change spark plugs for new ones if it only mutters or murmmers more than once.
Degrease/dry points and points housing and plug leads if it then does it again.(WD40 etc)
Sync carbs at the 1st opportunity too (if twin carbs), trying to start it with only one carb doing the work can be tough going.
And getting it tuned to a nice steady idle is about essential forr easy starting.
Good Luck - have fun.
 
It should start first or second kick. Popping and kick backs are not normal.

The spoke in the hole method of timing and the ciggi paper is too crude for my tastes.

Refer to my method of setting up and timing a K2F .... there just is no shortcut to doing it the proper way. And always check the point gap on both ramps ..... they MUST be equal .... check even if your mag just came from a rebuilder.

Slick

PS: fell free to PM me if you need help.
 
texasSlick said:
The spoke in the hole method of timing and the ciggi paper is too crude for my tastes.
Click to expand...

Thats the method described in the Norton Owners Manuals etc, for way back into history prior even to the early dominators.
Find a good setup that starts and runs well, and stick with it...

Its surprisingly accurate, if you ever have the opportunity to check it with a strobe timing light and degree wheel.
Cigarette paper is exceedingly thin, when you (try to) measure them.

Somewhere where timing method descriptions can err is to ALWAYS rotate the engine forwards to set the timing.
Rotating it backwards at any point can allow all the backlashes to accumulate, not good....
 
I use Slick's method...1 or 2 kick start all the time...It is about as close as one can get to right on...The timing must be checked after tightening the advance nut...
 
Pulled off the primary and timing cover and went after this again, comparing the degree wheel with the 11/32 measure on the wooden dowel I used initially. The dowel measurement translated to about 35-36 degrees on the wheel. I was doing this hand holding the wheel and marking the rotor and stator with a sharpie- not as precise as attaching the wheel, but the best could rig up. Reset to 30 btdc, then readjusted the points, and attached the AA. I marked the position of the points plate in the mag housing with the sharpie, and after tightening the AA, found that I had moved the points plate. Readjusted, retightened, put it all back together, and the biked fired after a couple of kicks.
Have to wait and see if I can replicate my success as I snapped off the bolt for the oil feed to the rockers that goes on to the timing cover. One step forward...
 
I still can't tell whether you checked the timing, with stick or disc, after you tightened the drive pinion nut.
 
If you have a degree wheel, you are wasting time and (obviously) a lot of energy!

67Atlas nextstep


67Atlas nextstep
 
There is a downloadable degree wheel in the Technical Section of the Commando Forum. Simply print it on paper, paste it to foamcore or heavy card stock, and punch a hole for the rotor bolt. It will not be pretty, but it will be as functional as one needs it to be.

One could bond a large steel washer to the backside of the foamcore, then simply let the rotor magnets hold the wheel in place.

@wjrich: Have you checked the point gaps on both ramps? If they are not equal, you can time the engine until the cows come home, and the best you will do is get proper timing on ONE cylinder. It is my opinion, that some of the criticisms of Atlas shaking is due to uneven firing caused by unequal point gaps. There is a 2 degree difference in firing for each 0.001 inch gap difference. The off cylinder may be advanced or retarded depending on which gap was used to set timing.

Slick
 
texasSlick said:
One could bond a large steel washer to the backside of the foamcore, then simply let the rotor magnets hold the wheel in place.
Click to expand...
Thank you,
Great tipp.
Fritz
 
I'd be somewhat nervous of closely following that advice - turning the engine backwards when setting the timing lets all the backlashes accumulate. !!!
When did these words come from , GP ?

Engine should ALWAYS be turned forward in the normal direction of rotation when setting the timing.
Or it could be quite a few degrees out when you rotate it forwards and check the timing...

It might be cocher to turn just the magneto backwards, but knowing how to get a precise number of magneto degrees is less than simple...


grandpaul said:
67Atlas nextstep
Click to expand...
 
Rohan said:
I'd be somewhat nervous of closely following that advice - turning the engine backwards when setting the timing lets all the backlashes accumulate. !!!
When did these words come from , GP ?

Engine should ALWAYS be turned forward in the normal direction of rotation when setting the timing.
Or it could be quite a few degrees out when you rotate it forwards and check the timing...


grandpaul said:
67Atlas nextstep
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Agreed!

Slick
 
Triton Thrasher said:
I still can't tell whether you checked the timing, with stick or disc, after you tightened the drive pinion nut.
Click to expand...

Checked with both actually and it seems dead on.

Also, did check with the rebuilder when I picked up the rebuilt mag from him that points did open 180 apart.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
I still can't tell whether you checked the timing, with stick or disc, after you tightened the drive pinion nut.
Click to expand...

Checked with both actually and it seems dead on.

Also, did check with the rebuilder when I picked up the rebuilt mag from him that points did open 180 apart.
 
Rohan said:
I'd be somewhat nervous of closely following that advice - turning the engine backwards when setting the timing lets all the backlashes accumulate. When did these words come from , GP ?
Click to expand...

Kim the CD Man Norton CD, Norton factory Atlas shop manual.

Turning the engine backwards is not a problem, as long as you go WELL PAST the desired position of interest, then rotate FORWARD to the appropriate setting.
 
wjrich said:
Triton Thrasher said:
I still can't tell whether you checked the timing, with stick or disc, after you tightened the drive pinion nut.
Click to expand...

Checked with both actually and it seems dead on.

Also, did check with the rebuilder when I picked up the rebuilt mag from him that points did open 180 apart.
Click to expand...

Did you check while you still had the timing disc the point opening on the mag while you had it up there :?:
I am not suspicious, but let’s say............ cynical :shock:
 
GrandPaul wrote"

"Turning the engine backwards is not a problem, as long as you go WELL PAST the desired position of interest, then rotate FORWARD to the appropriate setting."

Agree .... the words in caps make all the difference.

I also agree with Bernhard .... I would check the rebuilder. I once helped a guy with his magneto, who said it just came from the rebuilder. His point gaps were 0.012 and 0.025!!!

Slick
 
texasSlick said:
G... I would check the rebuilder. I once helped a guy with his magneto, who said it just came from the rebuilder. His point gaps were 0.012 and 0.025!
Click to expand...

I had a similar experience with a mag that was "rebuilt" at a PREMIUM. Sent it to a second rebuilder with good forum credentials and was perfect after that.
 
GrandPaul wrote

"Turning the engine backwards is not a problem, as long as you go WELL PAST the desired position of interest, then rotate FORWARD to the appropriate setting."
texasSlick said:
Agree .... the words in caps make all the difference.
Click to expand...

The only flaw in this is that these words don't appear in the printed version.
Nor is WELL PAST clearly defined either. !

That is a trap for young players....
 
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