650SS magneto or electronic ignition

Question...When I got my 650, it would run on the mag. After going through the bike, I installed a Pazon ignition using a points housing I had lying around. It runs ok, but I was thinking of going back to the magneto. I probably didn't use it for fear of a duff condenser since it was original with no sign of of it being rebuilt. I have the old mag, plus a competition mag from an Atlas. Thinking of getting one of them rebuilt and use it. It would simplify the bike somewhat as well. Maybe I just want to fool around with it! What do you all think?

I would go with the competition mag, but only after a rebuild by a competent technician.

I can recommend Doug Wood.,,,,, dougwood@netzero.net

Also, check Resources pg 7 for a K2F setup guide

Slick

+1 for the K2FC.

+1 for Doug Wood.

If I had a 650SS designed to run a mag, I wouldn’t consider putting ANYTHING else on it other than well rebuilt magneto!

They're excellent devices, great spark, ultra reliable, and totally independent of the rest of the bikes electrics.

I found that the available new K2F points sets and base plates were badly made and not fit for service.

I know Doug via the VOC. I think I'll give him a ring. I got the bike out of a scrap yard. Rolling chassis, engine, gearbox.

Doug states that they will both operate about the same after being rebuilt. I think I'll keep the K2F, then sell the K2FC or keep as a spare.

If you get your magneto rebuilt, use a Brightspark EasyCap condenser, which will sit in the points assembly and can be replaced easily and cheaply if needed in future - it will avoid a full rebuild if the condenser fails. Bear in mind that, unlike with electronic ignition, you have to average the degree of advance, if the cam ring is unevenly worn. A well serviced magneto will give you years of trouble-free service and independence from the battery system.

The Holgs said:

If you get your magneto rebuilt, use a Brightspark EasyCap condenser, which will sit in the points assembly and can be replaced easily and cheaply if needed in future - it will avoid a full rebuild if the condenser fails. Bear in mind that, unlike with electronic ignition, you have to average the degree of advance, if the cam ring is unevenly worn. A well serviced magneto will give you years of trouble-free service and independence from the battery system.

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Doug Wood has access to a proprietary capacitor that replicates the original Lucas, and being polystyrene, has a century long lifespan. If the OP wants a Brightspark, he will have to find another rebuilder.

Slick

Back in the day the shop I worked in had several small parts drawers with various mag condensers. Having some electronic background, it fell to me to recap the mags that came into the shop. I still have a Fluke DMM with a cap tester that I used to check the leakage of the NOS caps (condensers). Out of a drawer full, I maybe found one or two with low enough leakage to put in service. That set me to buying MIL spec, high-voltage caps from an electronics supply house. When epoxied in place, these worked fine for as long as I knew. That said, the mag I recapped for my own bike failed years later and I replaced it with a Boyer and points-plate with the associated problems that brings.

I still have the mag and am tempted to tear it apart to use in place of the Boyer once again. I successfully did the BriteSpark fix on a Matchless single mag a year or so ago but I'm not sure the cap is the problem with the K2F. It hurts my foot to kick-start the Atlas so that's not a good test bed, besides the labor to retrofit.

I suppose it could gin up a bench tester but I have many other pressing matters just now; like a burst underground pipe needing fixed before winter freeze-up. Six-Feet-Down.

milfordite said:

Doug states that they will both operate about the same after being rebuilt. I think I'll keep the K2F, then sell the K2FC or keep as a spare.

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I agree that both will perform about the same after a rebuild, but the K2FC will give you "bragging rights" and the bike greater resale value.

Slick

Doug has rebuilt a K2F and a K2FC for me. For street riding you probably can’t tell the difference, but the FC does have a more noticeable “snap”.

I believe the K2FC was standard on the 650ss.

The K2F was on my bike when I got it, but I can't imagine Norton spending the $ to put a K2FC on a street bike. Who knows? Sending the mag to Doug tomorrow. It'll be a fun job to switch it back and get rid of the coils, etc. The bike feels so small compared to my Commandos.

texasSlick said:

I agree that both will perform about the same after a rebuild, but the K2FC will give you "bragging rights" and the bike greater resale value.

Slick

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Also the comp mag has the more secure lead plugs. I've had a lead or two come unplugged while riding.

Had thought about running a mag when souping up my Mercury but decided to stick with the stock distributor set up. Plus, I like to have a battery for lights if the engine dies while running. We mostly ride mountains. Got any pictures of your K2F and K2FC?

Hi I didn't see any where if this bike is a 650SS or not, but the 650SS has a competition magneto KF2C, these produce more output voltage from increased windings from memory.
The increased output is mainly to handle the increased compression ratio of the 650SS.
What I did when I restored my 1963 650SS, was to err on the side of more is better, so I adapted a modern Pason racing system, that I attached to the end of the crankshaft (outside of the alternator, still fits in the primary case), this unit will send a spark 2" or more from the end of the leads.
So far 1500 plus miles it is preforming better than expected, but if you don't have the ability to do this work, I would strongly suggest you upgrade the magneto to KF2C specs (more windings) to give yourself a greater spark output.
I still have the magneto in place but no internals, no gear or armature in place, I have run dummy spark plug leads out and hidden them, and no one can tell the magneto is not doing anything, other than looking original.

Regards
Burgs

My bike is from 1966. I don't really know if it is an SS or not, don't know how to tell the difference. Came with dual monoblock carbs. Other than that, I couldn't say. It had a KF2 mag installed.

The engine number should have an SS in it as in 18SS XXXX

My 68 650ss has Boyer. It starts very easily , idles nicely and runs strong.

Glen

Burgs said:

Hi I didn't see any where if this bike is a 650SS or not, but the 650SS has a competition magneto KF2C, these produce more output voltage from increased windings from memory.
The increased output is mainly to handle the increased compression ratio of the 650SS.
What I did when I restored my 1963 650SS, was to err on the side of more is better, so I adapted a modern Pason racing system, that I attached to the end of the crankshaft (outside of the alternator, still fits in the primary case), this unit will send a spark 2" or more from the end of the leads.
So far 1500 plus miles it is preforming better than expected, but if you don't have the ability to do this work, I would strongly suggest you upgrade the magneto to KF2C specs (more windings) to give yourself a greater spark output.
I still have the magneto in place but no internals, no gear or armature in place, I have run dummy spark plug leads out and hidden them, and no one can tell the magneto is not doing anything, other than looking original.

Regards
Burgs

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Nice. I'd be interested to see how you attached it.

worntorn said:

The engine number should have an SS in it as in 18SS XXXX

My 68 650ss has Boyer. It starts very easily , idles nicely and runs strong.

Glen

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Glen,