650 v 750

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I'm not sure the 50s were all that wonderful for the workers in motorcycle factories . For example, Phillip Vincent took full advantage of the "exciting workplace" factor by paying very low wages, even for the time. Workers were expected to be "enthusiasts" which tended to mean lots of unpaid overtime and a generally substandard lifesyle in exchange for being part of the team that was building the "world's fastest production machine, two wheels or four", or in the case of the Black Lightning, "world's fastest motorcycle, production or racing"

Glen
 
I can attest to the fact that being in the motorcycle industry in the late 1960's was interesting and occasionally exciting. I spent most of 1967 and half of 1968 at N-V, initially on the Commando project, then on the AJS Stormer. Getting paid to ride the Commando all over England for 40 or more hours a week was a blast, particularly after we got the early bugs worked out.

The biggest downside was the incompetence and short-sightedness of upper management. Our CEO was a fine, upstanding gentleman who had no knowledge of or experience with motorcycles. I don't think he was an engineer as he had a Ph.D in combustion chemistry and had been at Rolls-Royce in their turbine engine development group. His immediate subordinates were the ones who had run the company close to extinction. He did hire some new blood in the design side of the company, who had started to turn things around.

Another problem was the lack of hard data about the vehicles. Everything revolved around rider opinion. I was hired to get a test instrumentation system organised so things could actually be measured, but the funding disappeared into the idiotic PR exercise that got us the "green blob" badges. I'd interviewed with Boeing just before I went to N-V and I got a job offer about 15 months later. Visa processing and getting ready to ship our stuff to the US took about 5 months, by which time N-V was in its death throes.

An interesting aside on the worn-out tooling was a story about the move of Norton from Birmingham to London. A majority of the older craftsmen declined the move and retired. The production drilling machine which drilled the holes in the crank-cases was relocated and the London folks were having a lot of trouble with inaccuracies. They talked to the man who ran the machine before the move and he asked "Did the take my bit of wood?" It turned out that the bearings in the machine were so worn that he used to push the spinle over as it drilled down, so that the set-up was always at one side of the wear. The vast majority of the machinery was of 1930's vintage and in poor shape after wartime production pressures.

I remember a comment by the CEO when asked about Japanese competitors. he said "They only make little bikes and scooters, not big ones like ours." About 6 months later, Honda came out with their 4-cylinder 750(?) with electric start, fully enclosed drive chain and all the other goodies. The death knell was very loud.
 
Frank,
Little of track..650 V 750 //would a" tuned 650" commando cut it back in 68? or was it about the male gender wanting bigger? I know the atlas 750 was the bad boy, and a backward step to 650 was a no-no.



frankdamp said:
I can attest to the fact that being in the motorcycle industry in the late 1960's was interesting and occasionally exciting. I spent most of 1967 and half of 1968 at N-V, initially on the Commando project, then on the AJS Stormer. Getting paid to ride the Commando all over England for 40 or more hours a week was a blast, particularly after we got the early bugs worked out.

The biggest downside was the incompetence and short-sightedness of upper management. Our CEO was a fine, upstanding gentleman who had no knowledge of or experience with motorcycles. I don't think he was an engineer as he had a Ph.D in combustion chemistry and had been at Rolls-Royce in their turbine engine development group. His immediate subordinates were the ones who had run the company close to extinction. He did hire some new blood in the design side of the company, who had started to turn things around.

Another problem was the lack of hard data about the vehicles. Everything revolved around rider opinion. I was hired to get a test instrumentation system organised so things could actually be measured, but the funding disappeared into the idiotic PR exercise that got us the "green blob" badges. I'd interviewed with Boeing just before I went to N-V and I got a job offer about 15 months later. Visa processing and getting ready to ship our stuff to the US took about 5 months, by which time N-V was in its death throes.

An interesting aside on the worn-out tooling was a story about the move of Norton from Birmingham to London. A majority of the older craftsmen declined the move and retired. The production drilling machine which drilled the holes in the crank-cases was relocated and the London folks were having a lot of trouble with inaccuracies. They talked to the man who ran the machine before the move and he asked "Did the take my bit of wood?" It turned out that the bearings in the machine were so worn that he used to push the spinle over as it drilled down, so that the set-up was always at one side of the wear. The vast majority of the machinery was of 1930's vintage and in poor shape after wartime production pressures.

I remember a comment by the CEO when asked about Japanese competitors. he said "They only make little bikes and scooters, not big ones like ours." About 6 months later, Honda came out with their 4-cylinder 750(?) with electric start, fully enclosed drive chain and all the other goodies. The death knell was very loud.
 
Frank Damp wrote:

"I remember a comment by the CEO when asked about Japanese competitors. he said "They only make little bikes and scooters, not big ones like ours." About 6 months later, Honda came out with their 4-cylinder 750(?) with electric start, fully enclosed drive chain and all the other goodies. The death knell was very loud."
Frank Damp
ex-Norton Villiers - Marston Road
Develpment & Competition Department
1967-68

I think this fairly well sums up my assessment of British MC executives of the period. I have long said ...The biggest mistake the British MC execs ever made was to think "we know how to put an engine, frame, wheels, suspension and steering together in a way to make the world's best handling motorcycles...no one will ever figure out how to do that, therefore our market is secure"

The first Hondas did not handle very well (a 305 Scrambler's handling, or lack of it, scared the crap out of me), but they did not leak, would run 500 miles and looked like they just came from around the block, and in general, eliminated the annoyances we took as being par for motorcycle ownership. A pity the British industry had not the foresight or resources to compete with the Japanese on mechanical and electrical integrity. In all fairness to the Brits, however, I believe the Japanese manufacturers had financial help from behind the scenes (lots of it).

Slick
 
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