530 x-ring chain on a mk111

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petejohno

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Anyone running a x ring chain on a mk 111?. The DID 530 VM x- ring is only a 1.1mm wider than the standard chain I have been running and I looks like there is enough clearance for it.
 
I looked at that one but went to a 520 instead. The main issue is usually the wider connecting link but with an X that will be rivetted and shouldn't stick out more than the other rivets. So, if you have enough clearance its worth a go. Should be able to fit it loosely and test without making it non returnable. Of course you will be told that a 530 X or O will never fit but our Commandos vary hugely in tolerances as do chain widths :?
 
andychain said:
Take 4-6 bhp out of your motor or use a good non O ring.
Click to expand...

MMMMMH Thats nice to know....... 45 + another 30-40yrs of experience is worth listening too! .. In my head .... Thanks AndyC
 
Why do you think racers avoid it.

If you ride daily in all weathers then an O ring is fine for fair weather
use a good non O ring.

As for old Brit bikes they shouldnt have O ring....they never did from factory
and there were few problems.

Andy
 
andychain said:
Why do you think racers avoid it.

If you ride daily in all weathers then an O ring is fine for fair weather
use a good non O ring.

As for old Brit bikes they shouldnt have O ring....they never did from factory
and there were few problems.

Andy
Click to expand...
Just take a new o ring or (less so) x ring out of the box, the stiffness is staggering, I'd say that it would easily consume 4-5hp! That's probably not even noticeable on a 150hp modern bike... But on a mk111, when you've got less than 40 to begin with...
 
Ludwig believe what you want mate but figures can prove anyhting, if they
lost that little then racers would use them. Apart from the bloody weight of
them they do loose BHP.

I think the first comment shows the peice for what it is.

"chains grow they dont stretch"

They actually elongate through wear, the terminology shows the experise.

I aint getting into a slanging match and in future will only comment on
specific posts.

The guy was an "engineer" but in chain, I dont think so.
 
Using a racing vehicle as an example for how something should be done is not a valid example for street use. Nothing on a race vehicle is designed for longevity - it is designed for the maximum performance for the distance/time required. Using a product because a racer does can make a motorcycle (or car) less capable or reliable on the street than it was from the factory.

I have no idea if a ringed chain saps any HP and I have to say I have never seen any dyno info on the subject but the weight of the chain would automatically make it a liability for racing, where they work to lose an ounce! OTOH, I have owned bikes for a LONG time and I used to do the chain-cleaning/lubrication drill as per the old instructions - boiling in the kitchen, etc. I much prefer a modern, ringed, chain. I converted my Commando from the oem chain to the 520 ringed chain (from CNW) and I couldn't tell any difference in power as far as riding the motorcycle. I can't say whether there was or wasn't a power change but there was certainly no difference that could be felt. But I sure prefer not boiling it in the kitchen! :)
 
andychain said:
Why do you think racers avoid it.

If you ride daily in all weathers then an O ring is fine for fair weather
use a good non O ring.

As for old Brit bikes they shouldnt have O ring....they never did from factory
and there were few problems.

Andy
Click to expand...

Sorry Andy, have to respectfully disagree on this one. A friend was at Laguna Seca this summer and spent a lot of time with the pit crewsand racers like Danny Pedrosa and the other top guys. He has pics of himself standing beside Pedrosa and Pedrosa is tiny!
They are all running Xring chains on their MotoGP bikes. They toss them after one race. He brought home the 520 x ring from Cal Crutchlow's bike. We checked it against a new 520x ring and the length was identical, so he will run it on his Vincent, probably for 20,000 miles or so.

As far as losing 5 hp by running sealed chain on an old Britbike, I run iton my old Vincent because the bike gets used for touring and would like to run it on the Commando as well. I have ridden with dozens of other Vincents, most with standad chains and we always find out which bike has the most available power on those long Mountain climbs. My 47 with the x ring chain outpulls all but one highly modified Vincent which runs 11 to one compression and a whole host of engine mods. He has an xring chain as well. Actually he has never pulled by as he is afraid to flog the bike for fear of seizure, but having seen it go on the flat, I suspect it would pull pretty hard on a climb, at least until it locks up!

Glen
 
worntorn said:
andychain said:
Why do you think racers avoid it.

If you ride daily in all weathers then an O ring is fine for fair weather
use a good non O ring.

As for old Brit bikes they shouldnt have O ring....they never did from factory
and there were few problems.

Andy
Click to expand...

Sorry Andy, have to correct on this one. A friend was at Laguna Seca this summer and spent a lot of time with the pit crewsand racers like Danny Pedrosa and the other top guys. He has pics of himself standing beside Pedrosa and Pedrosa is tiny!
They are all running Xring chains on their MotoGP bikes. They toss them after one race. He brought home the 520 x ring from Cal Crutchlow's bike. We checked it against a new 520x ring and the length was identical, so he will run it on his Vincent, probably for 20,000 miles or so.

Glen
Click to expand...

That's interesting Glen, I certainly didn't know that.
 
I ran a 530 x-ring on my MK3 for years. It worked great. I had to tweek the chainguard a little for clearance.

I also ran a 520 x-ring on my racebike. There was no detectable loss on the dyno. Jim
 
After looking at all the data I went with the CNW 520 X-ring setup for the new Norton project. a 5HP loss is just silly-numbers!

Vince
 
In answer to the original post, I run a 520X ring on my Mk3.

I bought a Dominator gearbox sprocket from A. Norton which I believe is 5/8" X 1/4" and sent my rear sprocket to Norman White to machine down to size.
I can't re-call the last time I adjusted the chain (possibly last year) and I have covered approx 2500- 3,000 miles on the Norton this year which for me along with having to constantly lube a non-Xring is the reason that I changed to X-ring. I don't have any regrets......yet. 8)

I took the 520 route so that I definitely wouldn't have any clearance issues, so can't comment on a 530.
 
I have trawled the net and just about every post states there is power loss from
O ring chain, that reduces with heat.

The only firm data was from a race team that dyno'd a Suzuki RMZ 450.

Non O ring chain 56.4 down to 54.1 with O ring, over 4%. mY Bandit has has
127 bhp so that equates to over 5 bhp.

Even the manufacturers such as DID and RK speak of losses invovled but fail
to mention %. They also state that there is less loss with X ring, note the use of
less loss.

Those who have riden my ancient bandit love the ride and gear change and those
that have swopped are full of praise.

Andy
 
All I see for sale now is x ring, other than very old stock Oring.
I think the power robbing idea goes back to the early days of Oring, and maybe 2 hp as with the above example, not the 5hp quoted earlier for a Commando, the bike in question.
Clearly the new Xring chains offer either a power or strength advantage to race teams or they would not have gone to them.

Glen
 
The reason I asked the original question, is that I have had a good experience with my Rickman CR - the X-Ring has done 10,000km and the thing has hardly stretched at all - and it saves all that chain lube on the rear wheel. I have heard that the MK111 has a little more room around the gearbox sprocket ,hence the question regarding the a 530 size.
I considered the CNW conversion, but have read differing opinions regarding sprocket wear - maybe later if this don't work out.

[I ran a 530 x-ring on my MK3 for years. It worked great. I had to tweek the chainguard a little for clearance. ]

Thanks Jim - just the answer I needed.

johno
 
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