441 needle position

seattle##gs · Dec 27, 2023

The service manual says #3 position...is that full lean or full rich?

hhh · Dec 27, 2023

Full rich. Top position of the clip is #1 and is leanest. Wouldn't hurt to experiment, especially if your needle jet has a few miles on it. #2 might act more like #3 if it's worn.

seattle##gs · Dec 28, 2023

All new stuff. Seems crazy that they say #3 position instead of full rich or full lean. Thanks for the info

baz · Dec 28, 2023

I'd still start out with the needle in the middle position
A lot has changed over the years

seattle##gs · Dec 29, 2023

It came stock with the needle in the middle and it ran poorly at about 2500. The book said to put it in the 3rd position which could be interpreted either way.

marshg246 · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
It came stock with the needle in the middle and it ran poorly at about 2500. The book said to put it in the 3rd position which could be interpreted either way.

From the AMAL website FAQs:

Needle Clip position, top down or bottom up?

Something that crops up all the time is whether you count the needle clip slot from the top down or bottom up. With all Amal carburettors the clip position is top down.

concours · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
All new stuff. Seems crazy that they say #3 position instead of full rich or full lean. Thanks for the info

seattle##gs said:
It came stock with the needle in the middle and it ran poorly at about 2500. The book said to put it in the 3rd position which could be interpreted either way.

No.
No it can't.
Being in the motorbike repair business, you must have service manuals about.
Every needle groove depiction I've ever seen in 52 years shows #1 at the top.

baz · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
It came stock with the needle in the middle and it ran poorly at about 2500. The book said to put it in the 3rd position which could be interpreted either way.

The carburettor works by different throttle positions
Not by rpm

mean gene · Dec 29, 2023

I have had two of these. Timing is very critical! Just my two cents Have fun kicking it!

seattle##gs · Dec 29, 2023

raising the RPM means different throttle positions. I am guessing that by 2500 RPM the needle position is starting to take effect.

seattle##gs · Dec 29, 2023

mean gene said:
I have had two of these. Timing is very critical! Just my two cents Have fun kicking it!

the timing is right on. It starts in one or two kicks and easily using the compression release. I have a Goldstar and if everything is right including a fully charged battery it fires off immediately. The dire warnings about kickback just doesn't happen.

marshg246 · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
raising the RPM means different throttle positions. I am guessing that by 2500 RPM the needle position is starting to take effect.

Probably, but it's best to state the throttle opening. At about 1/4-3/4 throttle, the needle and needle jet are primary.

baz · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
raising the RPM means different throttle positions. I am guessing that by 2500 RPM the needle position is starting to take effect.

You need to mark the throttle drum to see what throttle position you are at

baz · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
the timing is right on. It starts in one or two kicks and easily using the compression release. I have a Goldstar and if everything is right including a fully charged battery it fires off immediately. The dire warnings about kickback just doesn't happen.

A B44 dosent have the crankshaft weight of a goldstar

concours · Dec 29, 2023

seattle##gs said:
raising the RPM means different throttle positions. I am guessing that by 2500 RPM the needle position is starting to take effect.

That depends on engine load.
In neutral, just cracking the throttle will allow revs all the way on up.

Light throttle cruise, 2500 flat ground.... 1/8 throttle
versus 2500 while coming up through the gears in earnest 3/4 or more

You've never marked a twistgrip before?

baz · Dec 29, 2023

It's a bit of an eye opener when you mark the twist grip
Most people will tell you they ride at half or maybe three-quarters throttle
When you mark the throttle you may find you actually ride at quarter throttle or much less in every day riding

seattle##gs · Dec 29, 2023

Amals have very little adjustment. All parts are correct, I was unsure which direction to move the needle and wanted to limit the time I spent tinkering. I've marked plenty of throttles before. The Victor is sitting in the driveway minus the left footpeg and timing cover. I fired it up and it idled well but began to break up as I turned the throttle. It's doing better now with the needle in the richest position...will test ride this aft.

Another question. There is oil appearing on the fin at the head joint left side, everywhere else it's dry. I retorqued the head but no improvement. How does it get oil on the left side? the rocker caps are dry and the oil lines are dry. I wouldn't expect much oil in that area. The pushrod tunnel would be the most likely but its dry.

hhh · Dec 29, 2023

Oil can creep up the crankcase studs and escape out the head gasket. Some people chamfer the entry points at the case and install o-rings.

Triton Thrasher · Dec 29, 2023

hhh said:
Full rich. Top position of the clip is #1 and is leanest. Wouldn't hurt to experiment, especially if your needle jet has a few miles on it. #2 might act more like #3 if it's worn.

Worn needle jets should be renewed.

hhh · Dec 29, 2023

Triton Thrasher said:
Worn needle jets should be renewed.

Yes of course, but it's sometimes hard to know when that is. Plug gauges are not adequate since the jet wears oval. A gravity flow test might be the only reliable way, but just a percent can be significant, so it might be hard to get enough resolution.

441 needle position

Needle Clip position, top down or bottom up?​

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Needle Clip position, top down or bottom up?