2030 fossil fuel ban costs in the UK

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Quite a few years ago, Washington DC (the city, not the Federal Govt) started switching to buses powered by CNG (Natural Gas without the stink added). CNG is much better pollution-wise than gasoline or diesel. This week the city council voted to make the buses free for any route that originates in DC. Those moves are good air quality and to reduce congestion.

In the 70s the air, especially in late summer, was almost unbreathable in DC. We hated the pollution controls being added to cars. The air is good now.

Electric cars, motorcycles, and trucks are good in their place. If I ever buy a new car, it will be plug-in electric. I only go to the grocery store and doctor in my car and the grocery store has free charging stations.

All that said, there is so much stupidity about "pollution free" and global warming. For instance:
1) Internal combustion engines run great and pollution free when converted to run on hydrogen - problem: hydrogen takes more energy to produce than it provides!
2) Burning coal or oil to produce electricity and then increasing the needed electricity is terrible for air quality and if you believe in global warming, terrible for that too.
3) If they said all new vehicles must be electric by some date - it would be much more reasonable and acceptable to most people IMHO.
4) The big car companies are already moving to electric so maybe the Govt should just shut up!
 
marshg246 said:
Quite a few years ago, Washington DC (the city, not the Federal Govt) started switching to buses powered by CNG (Natural Gas without the stink added). CNG is much better pollution-wise than gasoline or diesel. This week the city council voted to make the buses free for any route that originates in DC. Those moves are good air quality and to reduce congestion.

In the 70s the air, especially in late summer, was almost unbreathable in DC. We hated the pollution controls being added to cars. The air is good now.

Electric cars, motorcycles, and trucks are good in their place. If I ever buy a new car, it will be plug-in electric. I only go to the grocery store and doctor in my car and the grocery store has free charging stations.

All that said, there is so much stupidity about "pollution free" and global warming. For instance:
1) Internal combustion engines run great and pollution free when converted to run on hydrogen - problem: hydrogen takes more energy to produce than it provides!
2) Burning coal or oil to produce electricity and then increasing the needed electricity is terrible for air quality and if you believe in global warming, terrible for that too.
3) If they said all new vehicles must be electric by some date - it would be much more reasonable and acceptable to most people IMHO.
4) The big car companies are already moving to electric so maybe the Govt should just shut up!
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Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say
Your point number 3 is happening
In 2030 in the UK
That's 7 years away
All new cars have to be electric
But we can not cope with the electric demand
We are facing power cuts this year because of a gas shortage to generate our electricity
Bus garages have diesel generators running 24/7 to charge electric buses
And London electric black cabs are fitted generators so they can get to the airport and back
 
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2030 fossil fuel ban costs in the UK
 
KiwiShane said:
Is this real..??
This is one of many articles that I've seen circulating...A climate lockdown proposal now...the next emergency control operation ...as I have mentioned in the past and of late

www.visionnews.online

Oxfordshire County Council Pass Climate Lockdown 'trial' to Begin in 2024

Residents will be confined to their local neighbourhood and have to ask permission to leave it all to 'save the planet'.
www.visionnews.online www.visionnews.online
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This is one of the reasons some of us take the second amendment of the US constitution so seriously here. This scares the shyte out of me that something like this could even be put forth.
 
baz said:
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say
Your point number 3 is happening
In 2030 in the UK
That's 7 years away
All new cars have to be electric
But we can not cope with the electric demand
We are facing power cuts this year because of a gas shortage to generate our electricity
Bus garages have diesel generators running 24/7 to charge electric buses
And London electric black cabs are fitted generators so they can get to the airport and back
Click to expand...
Actually, that was my main point. Govt making rules without being ready for them or even understanding them.

In the US, we have an estimated 500-year supply of natural gas even if we switched ALL energy needs to it. There are jurisdictions passing laws that no new construction can use natural gas! We have the coal states pushing to keep making electricity with coal, even though they are natural gas rich. We have oil states pumping oil for all sorts of things and burning of the natural gas that comes with the oil pumping!

See: https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3667/when-will-natural-gas-be-phased-out-usa-canada-uk/#:~:text=San Francisco, Seattle, Denver and New York are,hookups in new buildings. Kudo’s to you Berkeley!

Apparently, the EU and UK are as stupid as the US! Getting rid of home heating oil for new construction might make sense - it's not time to get rid of natural gas.

At the risk of attack, I believe there are pollution and global warming problems in the world, and I believe that things need to be done. So far, I've heard very little sensible to solve those problems. Where are the scientists without an agenda discussing and proving facts and where are the governments doing their jobs based on facts.
 
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concours said:
"free charging stations."

Explain "free" please.
🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅🎅
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Park car, plug in, pay nothing.

It costs the store pennies (other than the install). In my area a full charge of a Tesla is about $12.00. The half hour in a store costs them about them about $0.50 for charging. The hundred or so markdowns that the store has every day to attract customers costs them way more than putting some charge in your car. It is limited to one hour but there is no cop - you could charge for an hour, disconnect and re-connect if you're an ass.

Another interesting thing is that it's only slightly farther from the door that the handicap spots.

Today, there are two charging stations at that store.
 
marshg246 said:
Actually, that was my main point. Govt making rules without being ready for them or even understanding them.

In the US, we have an estimated 500-year supply of natural gas even if we switched ALL energy needs to it. There are jurisdictions passing laws that no new construction can use natural gas! We have the coal states pushing to keep making electricity with coal, even though they are natural gas rich. We have oil states pumping oil for all sorts of things and burning of the natural gas that comes with the oil pumping!

See: https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3667/when-will-natural-gas-be-phased-out-usa-canada-uk/#:~:text=San Francisco, Seattle, Denver and New York are,hookups in new buildings. Kudo’s to you Berkeley!

Apparently, the EU and UK are as stupid as the US! Getting rid of home heating oil for new construction might make sense - it's not time to get rid of natural gas.

At the risk of attack, I believe there are pollution and global warming problems in the world, and I believe that things need to be done. So far, I've heard very little sensible to solve those problems. Where are the scientists without and agenda discussing and proving facts and where are the governments doing their jobs based on facts.
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Your country as of a couple of years ago had full spectrum energy independence and where exporting energy products to the rest of the world ..untill someone turned off the tap.🤔
Once you realize how the world economic forum and their donors that control big tech and the world media work...then you will see why true science and common sence solutions are being censored and shadow banned across the globe to allow the climate cult to inflict their agenda.
I totally agree we have a pollution problem...and that should be the main concern of local and global governance...but they rather deflect to this climate science cult rubbish instead of correcting the damage that has already been down eg: water quality..land fill and environmental waste/pollution issues....follow the money
 
MikeG said:
This is one of the reasons some of us take the second amendment of the US constitution so seriously here. This scares the shyte out of me that something like this could even be put forth.
Click to expand...
Would definitely be the time to arm!

It cannot stand - unconstitutional on several fronts.
 
KiwiShane said:
Your country as of a couple of years ago had full spectrum energy independence and where exporting energy products to the rest of the world ..untill someone turned off the tap.🤔
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Between us and our buds to the north, we probably could supply the entire world needs. Especially if we would bring our technology skills to bear. The country that put people on the moon with the computing power of a wristwatch should have resolved all this long ago. Unfortunately, we are cheap, and we want everything to be cheap. It's cheaper to dig coal than to resolve nuclear power. It's cheaper to refine gasoline than to develop efficient fuel cells for cars. Today, in la la land they are building hydrogen stations - great idea except the burning of coal and/or oil to make the hydrogen and it costs more to operate than a plug-in electric or gasoline.
 
baz said:
I'm still wondering what this means?
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Sorry, was not avoiding the question.
  1. The layouts, design and capacity of most roads have historical constraints that make it very difficult to cope with the volume of vehicles in circulation now. This is especially true of older cities.
  2. The volume of vehicles in circulation, and the road/air miles that we consume is extraordinarily large. This represents a huge environmental impact. As riders, we all know what it is like to suck fumes in queue of vehicles. Not pleasant.
  3. Something has to give to deal with congestion and pollution. Building more/bigger roads does not solve the problem for any length of time.
 
baz said:
I'm hoping for all our sakes it's fake
But the way things are going nothing surprises me
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It appears to be a dog-whistle "interpretation".

"Cars could be banned from six Oxford roads as part of a plan to introduce six new traffic filters in the city. Under the proposals drivers would need a permit to take private vehicles down six streets.

Permits would be available for blue badge [disabled] holders, health workers and professional and non professional care workers. All other vehicles including buses, coaches, taxis, vans, mopeds and HGVs will be allowed at all times."

Passes will be offered to residents and businesses affected by the changes, enabling them to travel through the filters without penalty.

www.oxfordshirelive.co.uk

Six new traffic filters planned for Oxford streets

There is set to be a six-month trial to test the idea
www.oxfordshirelive.co.uk www.oxfordshirelive.co.uk
 
marshg246 said:
Park car, plug in, pay nothing.

It costs the store pennies (other than the install). In my area a full charge of a Tesla is about $12.00. The half hour in a store costs them about them about $0.50 for charging. The hundred or so markdowns that the store has every day to attract customers costs them way more than putting some charge in your car. It is limited to one hour but there is no cop - you could charge for an hour, disconnect and re-connect if you're an ass.

Another interesting thing is that it's only slightly farther from the door that the handicap spots.

Today, there are two charging stations at that store.
Click to expand...
Subsidised with tax dollars. I want "free" electricity too.... to run my welder, range, clothes dryer.
 
gortnipper said:
Sorry, was not avoiding the question.
  1. The layouts, design and capacity of most roads have historical constraints that make it very difficult to cope with the volume of vehicles in circulation now. This is especially true of older cities.
  2. The volume of vehicles in circulation, and the road/air miles that we consume is extraordinarily large. This represents a huge environmental impact. As riders, we all know what it is like to suck fumes in queue of vehicles. Not pleasant.
  3. Something has to give to deal with congestion and pollution. Building more/bigger roads does not solve the problem for any length of time.
Click to expand...
Yep the roads in the UK are generally very old very narrow and very badly kept with pot holes and bad surface because of the amount of traffic
I think of traffic as a fluid ,if you make it hard to travel in one direction it'll flow around it
The problem as I see it is when you have no choice but to go that route
I used to have to travel into London by van to do site welding luckily I got out of it
But if I were doing it now it would cost me £12.50 ulez then £15 congestion charge then around £45 to park if I were lucky enough to find a parking space and lucky enough to off load welding equipment without getting a ticket
With the addition of cycle lanes on already narrow roads shops and businesses are suffering
 
concours said:
Subsidised with tax dollars. I want "free" electricity too.... to run my welder, range, clothes dryer.
Click to expand...
You asked that I define free - I did. How you extrapolated that to subsidized is a wonder. It's a for profit grocery store - has nothing to do with taxes! There are several businesses in my area who have installed free charging stations and more coming. The store also has points for purchases that you can redeem at shell gas stations. $100 purchased = 100 points = $0.10 off / gallon. I usually get $0.50-$1.00 off per gallon. These are marketing costs not tax subsidized.

You have two near you: https://www.plugshare.com/map/free-ev-stations

Fast Eddie, you have them near you too. In fact, there are more close to you than close to me.

KiwiShane: Both AU and NZ have them too - just more sparse.

baz: I bet you have them close too, but I don't know your city.
 
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marshg246 said:
You asked that I define free - I did. How you extrapolated that to subsidized is a wonder. It's a for profit grocery store - has nothing to do with taxes! There are several business in my area who have installed free charging stations and more coming. The store also has points for purchases that yo ucan redeem at shell gas stations. $100 purchased = 100 points = $0.10 off / gallon. Usually get $0.50-$1.00 off per gallon. These are marketing costs not tax subsidized.

You have two near you: https://www.plugshare.com/map/free-ev-stations

Fast Eddie, you have them near you too. In fact, there are more close to you than close to me.

KiwiShane: Both AU and NZ have them too - just more sparse.

baz: I bet you have them close too, but I don't know your city.
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There could be free charging points near me I really wouldn't know
Even if I wanted an electric car I couldn't afford one
I know there's a row of electric parking bays at the local supermarket
 
baz said:
Even if I wanted an electric car I couldn't afford one
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Of course, I know nothing of your finances, but many don't look at the total cost of ownership. There are so many costs involved other than the purchase price. Right now, the per-mile "fuel" cost of an EV is a lot lower than a gasoline powered car. It also matters how much electricity costs where you live - mine is relatively low but there are places in the US three times higher. Until batteries need changing, the maintenance costs are a lot less too. I'm sure that goes south quickly when you need new batteries.

If I ever buy a new car, a plug-in electric is right for me, but they are very wrong if you drive long distances or a lot. My 2011 car has less than 50k miles. I had a 2010 mini but when I realized last year that it had less than 50k miles and I hadn't put gas in it for 6 months, I gave it to my grandson.
 
I wonder how they'd fare if you needed them for a regular commute? Okay if you have a dedicated charging place but what if not? An awful lot a faffing about, I'd guess....
 
EstuaryBoy said:
I wonder how they'd fare if you needed them for a regular commute? Okay if you have a dedicated charging place but what if not? An awful lot a faffing about, I'd guess....
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If I had an electric car and had to charge my car at home I'd need a lead that was 2000 yards long :D
 
EstuaryBoy said:
I wonder how they'd fare if you needed them for a regular commute? Okay if you have a dedicated charging place but what if not? An awful lot a faffing about, I'd guess....
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When I still went to an office on workdays, it was a 9-mile trip so no issue. Years ago when I had a 36 mile each way commute it still would have been no issue. Years before that when I drove 100-200 miles a day - that would have been an issue especially since I often got called out in the middle of the night.

I do not believe the technology is refined enough for all vehicles to be electric, but for many people it might be - especially if the price comes down.
 
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