1974 850 / Fastback???????

Hey All,

New to this forum...have been running a couple of Nortons for years now...a 750 and an 850. Picked the 850 up around '89 or so and rebuilt it around '99. I have always wondered about the 850 because it is in Fastback trim and it is my understanding that the Fastback was only produced in the early years as a 750cc.

What is the concensus here...just a previous owner that switched out bodywork or is it possible that the factory...towards the end and dieing days put together bikes from whatever parts were lieing around.

tink

Tink,
Definitely a conversion. Fastbacks were finished before the 850 was introduced. The telling item is often the rear mudguard, which has been out of production for at least 30 years. Conversions often either have a standard rear mudguard off a Roadster/Interstate/SS, or some other lashup. Fastback mudguards have an outer lip and are shorter than the standart one.
The "dying days" saga is an ongoing myth in Norton and Triumph forums. Even in their most desperate days they did not lash up bikes from an assortment of parts from models last built years ago just to have something to sell. We are talking industry here, not some backyard dealer. The only time Norton did that was in post-rotary production times, when Richard Negus cobbled several bikes together from leftover parts. These were mostly the bare bones of works experimental hacks that they built into complete bikes because they were really desperate without an official liquidator appointed (1993-1994).
Joe

Welcome to the forum tink,

tinkerman said:

Picked the 850 up around '89 or so and rebuilt it around '99. I have always wondered about the 850 because it is in Fastback trim and it is my understanding that the Fastback was only produced in the early years as a 750cc.

What is the concensus here...just a previous owner that switched out bodywork or is it possible that the factory...towards the end and dieing days put together bikes from whatever parts were lieing around.

Click to expand...

It's very likely that the bodywork has been changed at some point in the past-unless the bike is earlier than 1974 and an 850 engine has been fitted into a 750 model?
Do the engine/frame plate/gearbox serial numbers all match? Are they in the 850 3***** number series? Is there a date code on the frame certification plate that shows it was built in 1974?

Appreciate the quick and consise replies....engine numbers and frames match and it has the frame plate rivetted to the neck. Will check on the serial number and get back...I work internationaly and won't be back in my shop for a couple of weeks.

Good to talk with some knowledgable Norton folk....I picked up these bikes separately and fairly inexpensively...brought them back to operating condition and ran around on them for years....have used them less in recent years as my motorcycle interests have wandered...been running an 88 Heritage Softail for the last 5 years or so and my wanderlust for something different is winding up again it seems.

However, love the old Nortons and as they don't eat much hay, will likley keep them in my motley little collection...at least until I am unable to kick the brutes over...I remember it taking me a couple of weeks to perfect the routine and ending up with a bruised ankle as a result of the learning curve.

Again appreciate the info and any other opinions that might be forthcoming....always hoped i had some special little Norton bastard but I suspected not...will also check out the mudgaurd style a little more closely when i get back in the shop.

tink

Coming back to the ongoing myth of bikes built by desperate factories from all sorts of leftovers. This is a popular excuse used by sellers of odd motorcycles that have indeed been scraped together using any part that went cheap on ebay. Or to make a visual desaster resulting from that strategy more appealing. Another lie used is "works prototype", "experimental bike used by the factory" or, if it sports rearsets and a freely-invented exhaust, "works race bike used by Mike Hailwood/Geoff Duke/Peter Williams".
Whenever you hear this sort of story, beware, take your money and run!
Joe

More likely dealerships and motorcycle shops that had Norton stock in the late 70's might have cobbled stuff together and sold it with any story that would help move the bikes. This would have helped the myth along. It is of course impossible to document. It could have just as easily been an owner who had Norton bits that combined a couple of bikes into one.

While the factory blockade was in effect at Triumph Meriden, there were DEFINITELY bikes that went out as 74 models that has leftover 73 spec bits that were still on the shelf (the differences aren't as staggering as puting Fastback bodywork on an 850 Norton).

Furthermore, many people have first-hand stories of buying mix-n-match Triumphs and BSAs off the shop floor (I like the Bonnie, but give me those scrambler pipes; or, I like the TR6, but give me the tach & speedo off the Bonnie, etc.) Some dealers catered to thier clients with swapping gas tanks for the "right" color, then selling what remained to an unsuspecting (and uncaring) kid home from boot camp.

Still, back on point, NO, there is no "factory" 850 Fastback.

1973/74 Triumphs: the question is not when they left the factory declared as 1974 models, but when they were actually built (assembled). This was the sit-in period with the workers blockading the factory with rows and rows of finished bikes inside that NVT could not get out. These were released months later, probably declared and registered as current models.
The periods likely to see bikes built from bits in the Triumph case were the very last days of the Meriden Cooperative, and the very first bikes from the L.F.Harris era.

ZFD said:

1973/74 Triumphs: the question is not when they left the factory declared as 1974 models, but when they were actually built (assembled). This was the sit-in period with the workers blockading the factory with rows and rows of finished bikes inside that NVT could not get out. These were released months later, probably declared and registered as current models.
The periods likely to see bikes built from bits in the Triumph case were the very last days of the Meriden Cooperative, and the very first bikes from the L.F.Harris era.

Click to expand...

1974 ("J" year serial number prefix) season production at Meriden began in June (or August depending on the source of the info.) 1973. The factory sit-in and blockade did not start until 14th Sept. 1973 thus the Meriden factory had ample time to use up any left-over parts from the previous season (which they did have a habit of doing-apparently).

However, NVT negotiations with the Meriden workers during the sit-in period did result in a significant number of bikes being released from the Meriden factory-some of which were apparently incomplete and had to be finished off with whatever parts could be found.

After the sit-in ended in March 1975 the Meriden Co-op. resumed production of the remaining stock of 1974 models, finally completing them in May '75.

Production of the first fully Co-op built 1975 (K) season Triumph twins* begun during April 1975, however there was no difference in specification between the '74 NVT and '75 Meriden Co-op. models.
1975 model production only lasted for around three months before 1976 (N) model production (with left foot gearchange and disc rear brake etc.) commenced in July 1975.

*(Triumph T150/T160 Tridents had been in production at Small Heath for several months by that time)