1007cc Maney motor for the road...?

Just asking... has anyone done this? It would be interesting to know what it was like...

"dances with wolves" put one together and explained the details but I can't find the thread.

Oops - I meant "dances with shrapnel"

Fast Eddie said:

Just asking... has anyone done this? It would be interesting to know what it was like...

Click to expand...

That would be "dances with shrapnel" although I don't think he has done any street miles on it. Jim

jsmotorsport-maney-850-85bhp-motor-t15388.html?hilit=1007cc%20Maney

jsmotorsport-maney-850-85bhp-motor-t15388-105.html?hilit=1007cc%20Maney#p189474

Dances with Shrapnel said:

At the risk of repeating myself, the best bang for the buck would be punching out an 828 cc to a 920 cc to gain an additional 10.50% swept volume. Another 10.75% increase in swept volume would come from an additional 1mm bore increase and a 4mm increase in stroke length which yields the 1,007cc. Friction loss is not such a factor as stroke is increased only 4.5% yet no need to spin it anywhere near as high as a 750 or 828 in order to get bucket loads of torque and power.

Click to expand...

It lives. Street legal and rocking.

A short clip of my first ride on it at Barber Vintage Festival in Leeds, Alabama, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmrqC0QxehI

Street legal torque monster. Runs clean and tight.

That's one of the cutest Commando I've seen Dances, great way to go to use up tires. Should work up neck muscles resisting the pull too.

Dances with Shrapnel said:

It lives. Street legal and rocking.

A short clip of my first ride on it at Barber Vintage Festival in Leeds, Alabama, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmrqC0QxehI

Street legal torque monster. Runs clean and tight.

Click to expand...

Great looking bike, John. What CR are you running? I'm putting a 1007 together for my street Commando, and was assuming I'd have to fit an e-start, probably Old Brits, but yours seems to start pretty well on the kicker. Would you mind posting the build details? Carbs, cam, etc. Or maybe you already have, and I've just forgotten. On the other hand, Steve Maney recently broke his leg while kick starting his street bike, so maybe the electric foot isn't such a bad idea.

Ken

I did a little photo shoot with 'Dances' bike while it was at the NYC Norton workshop where it was built, here are a couple pics.

Serious machine that. Pretty too!
How are vibration levels with the big engine and solid mounting?
Glen

Hi John

That is a thing of beauty Plus all that torque. I really like the faired in lights front & rear, they keep the bike so clean.
Nice.

Chris

Chris said:

Hi John

That is a thing of beauty Plus all that torque. I really like the faired in lights front & rear, they keep the bike so clean.
Nice.

Chris

Click to expand...

It is indeed a thing of beauty, but perhaps best described as a race bike with lights?

The lovely photos neglect to show the kickstart, but Kens comment suggests that it is there and functional, but I see little evidence of a charging system!

From Eddies POV.....'Startability' might be important, as well as charging, and 'how does it all work with the isos?

I am assuming vibes are managed by things like JSM pistons and rods and careful balancing in the high 60s!

I am guessing that for most of us 'older gentlemen' this bike could carry us 30 minutes at a time, at most. That may of course be a very enjoyable 30 minutes, but I suspect more than 30 minutes break is also needed, and that the second 30 minutes (getting home) might carry a touch less pleasure

It is a thing of beauty, to look at AND to ride.

There is a kickstart on the TTI gearbox and the bike starts on the first kick with good technique. It runs very, very smooth (smoother than a lot of bikes I know), and I was surprised how easy it felt on tiny variations of the throttle. I think the FCR carbs are a big part of the tractability. And the power is like you would expect - gobs! When we did some initial break-in dyno runs it had some pretty fancy numbers right off the bat before any tuning changes.

We've adapted a very low profile 150w alternator outboard of the 40mm pulley since Doug's photo shoot, so it is charging. And yes, it's much like a race bike dressed up as a street bike, but in fact it's more comfortable than it might appear. I probably wouldn't ride it to California, but perhaps to Daytona.
Best part - it weighs about 300lbs.

Here's a video of us running it up on our dyno, before it was completed. Somewhere I have more footage of it on the streets and I"ll try to find it and post.

[video]http://youtu.be/3IWFVyQm29I[/video]

My original intention was to build a 1007 engine, but when I spoke to Steve about this, he suggested it would be difficult to kick start. Also a well known contributor to this forum put me off the idea, mentioning possible long term reliability issues & so I went the 920 route. I would still love to have a go on one though!

I have been kickstarting a 1360 new build Vincent with large band squish heads, so 1007 seems quite reasonable. I do live in fear of a kickback and generally put a knee brace on before riding. Come to think of it, even the high compression 1000 CC Vincents aren't bad to kick, lots of us older guys and some quite small riders manage those on a regular basis. A compression release is needed on those. Without that, starting is very difficult, tho not impossible if you have enough size/leg strength.

Does this 1007 have a compression release of some sort?

Glen

Doug MacRae said:

I did a little photo shoot with 'Dances' bike while it was at the NYC Norton workshop where it was built, here are a couple pics.

Click to expand...

What a beautiful machine ! nuff said
sam

Holmeslice said:

It is a thing of beauty, to look at AND to ride.

.......I probably wouldn't ride it to California, but perhaps to Daytona........

Click to expand...

Keep it away from the salt

Ken[/quote]

Ken,
Kenny Cummings of NYC Norton and I conceptualized this bike as a 1,007cc Norton with a supercharger as a sort of statement build. Not sure of what the statement was but it was going to be interesting. During the early stages of conceptualizing, a Herb Becker built 1,007cc became available after a fellow in Ontario Canada passed on at a way too early age and never realized his plans for a 1,007cc dirt tracker. That build had stock rods which Steve Maney cautioned against using for anything over say 90 hp in a race engine. The engine started as a 12.6:1 compression ratio but what you see in the video is somewhere around 9 or 10:1 compression ratio.
The motor went to Jim Comstock for con rod replacement ; you can read about the head flow in one of Jim’s threads.

See:

http://www.accessnorton.com/head-flow-testing-t8640-180.html?hilit=head flow

We installed JS steel rods and pistons but could not safely cut the margins for the valve pockets to get the compression back up to where I wanted it so we are using a thick solid copper head gasket. This all results in a pretty sloppy combustion chamber (no quench). The next build will have custom pistons and rods to get the compression ratio up and we have not ruled out the purpose built motor for a blower.

As for starting, as Holmslice stated, following the starting protocol and no problem. I am using a special kick start lever from NYC Norton. Clears the shift linkage and is a bit longer for extra leverage. Keep in mind that I am using a Steve Maney belt drive which renders a slightly different ratio than that of a stock drive. Furthermore, I carry considerable ballast to make it look easy but in fact, it is easy.

Particulars about the engine:

Steve Maney cases, crank & barrel.
JS off the shelf steel rods and alloy pistons
44mm intake valves
39mm intake port
40mm Keihin flat slides with pumpers
Boyer ignition
Steve Maney 2 into 1 exhaust
BSA A65 cam followers with the usual follower block.
Megacycle 560-N480 cam – (The old Norris N480 grind).

As stated earlier, it is surprisingly smooth. Crack the throttle and the front wheel lifts. Imagine if it was running at 12.6:1 compression ratio - a very angry motor. Looking forward to opening it up and use it in anger soon.

This was a solid build of a bike and a lot of NYCNorton attention went into the details.

worntorn said:

Does this 1007 have a compression release of some sort?
Glen

Click to expand...

Glen,
No compression release installed nor needed. Others results and needs will vary.

Matchless said:

My original intention was to build a 1007 engine, but when I spoke to Steve about this, he suggested it would be difficult to kick start. Also a well known contributor to this forum put me off the idea, mentioning possible long term reliability issues & so I went the 920 route. I would still love to have a go on one though!

Click to expand...

What reliability issues were suggested?

I would have thought that with Maney case and crank, and Maney barrels with the bore spaced out to allow more meet between them, the core package would be quite robust. And of course, it would require far less revs at a given speed equirement. Add to that package a 'sensible build inc Carrillo rods and TTI box and I really would have thought it to be a fast and reliable lump.

I do however imagine it could be a challenge to kickstart!

Dances with Shrapnel said:

Ken

Click to expand...

Ken,
Kenny Cummings of NYC Norton and I conceptualized this bike as a 1,007cc Norton with a supercharger as a sort of statement build. Not sure of what the statement was but it was going to be interesting. During the early stages of conceptualizing, a Herb Becker built 1,007cc became available after a fellow in Ontario Canada passed on at a way too early age and never realized his plans for a 1,007cc dirt tracker. That build had stock rods which Steve Maney cautioned against using for anything over say 90 hp in a race engine. The engine started as a 12.6:1 compression ratio but what you see in the video is somewhere around 9 or 10:1 compression ratio.
The motor went to Jim Comstock for con rod replacement ; you can read about the head flow in one of Jim’s threads.

See:

http://www.accessnorton.com/head-flow-testing-t8640-180.html?hilit=head flow

We installed JS steel rods and pistons but could not safely cut the margins for the valve pockets to get the compression back up to where I wanted it so we are using a thick solid copper head gasket. This all results in a pretty sloppy combustion chamber (no quench). The next build will have custom pistons and rods to get the compression ratio up and we have not ruled out the purpose built motor for a blower.

As for starting, as Holmslice stated, following the starting protocol and no problem. I am using a special kick start lever from NYC Norton. Clears the shift linkage and is a bit longer for extra leverage. Keep in mind that I am using a Steve Maney belt drive which renders a slightly different ratio than that of a stock drive. Furthermore, I carry considerable ballast to make it look easy but in fact, it is easy.

Particulars about the engine:

Steve Maney cases, crank & barrel.
JS off the shelf steel rods and alloy pistons
44mm intake valves
39mm intake port
40mm Keihin flat slides with pumpers
Boyer ignition
Steve Maney 2 into 1 exhaust
BSA A65 cam followers with the usual follower block.
Megacycle 560-N480 cam – (The old Norris N480 grind).

As stated earlier, it is surprisingly smooth. Crack the throttle and the front wheel lifts. Imagine if it was running at 12.6:1 compression ratio - a very angry motor. Looking forward to opening it up and use it in anger soon.

This was a solid build of a bike and a lot of NYCNorton attention went into the details.

worntorn said:

Does this 1007 have a compression release of some sort?
Glen

Click to expand...

Glen,
No compression release installed nor needed. Others results and needs will vary.[/quote]

Thats very impressive Dances. Please do keep us posted with progress reports and ride write ups won't you?
I'm interested in your thoughts on custom pistons to achieve higher CR and an effective squish band. I'm guessing you are thinking of dished pistons to achieve this? Again please do keep us posted on progress on that front also.
And in the meantime... ENJOY !!

Thanks for the details, John. Just one more question, and I'll leave you in peace. How did the N480 grind work out for street use? I'm planning to use one in the 1007 I'm building for Bonneville, but thought it might be too radical for a street bike. The 1007 I'm building for the street is going into my MK3 Commando, and I'm more interested in it being a street bike with great performance than being a race bike that can be ridden on the street. I have Steve's stage 3 heads for both engines, but was planning to keep the CR on the street bike down to 9.5 or so for pump gas. Does yours work ok on 91 octane pump gas?

Ken