HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !

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Fred B

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hi1 new here.
I am working at Old Motorcycle Shop in Calgary Alberta Canada. we got a 1970 matchless g16 bike to put together it has pass from original owner through 2 other people. it has Maney cases, cylinder, head, cam, crank, outrigger, and many more Maney parts. the bike was mocked up but never really assembled. Is there any one out there that could give me any instruction manuals or things that would help put it together. from my searches it look's like a 1007c kit but with more ... Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Fred
Steve is still about. You can e mail or phone him. Tony at Minovation built & raced the 1007 engine. Mines a 960 nothing daunting & quality stuff. Lots of people have built big engines with Steve's stuff. Post up what you need to know? But be aware you will be asked for pictures.
 
Chris said:
Hi Fred
Steve is still about. You can e mail or phone him. Tony at Minovation built & raced the 1007 engine. Mines a 960 nothing daunting & quality stuff. Lots of people have built big engines with Steve's stuff. Post up what you need to know? But be aware you will be asked for pictures.
Click to expand...
Chris, that's awesome news! I will try and contact him the customer has this bike a g12 and a 20 (all needing work) all a little tricked out but this this one is over the moon. I will ask customer if I can post photos ! he does realize what he has yet. can we post video as well once its running ?
 
Fred B said:
Chris, that's awesome news! I will try and contact him the customer has this bike a g12 and a 20 (all needing work) all a little tricked out but this this one is over the moon. I will ask customer if I can post photos ! he does realize what he has yet. can we post video as well once its running ?
Click to expand...
Post to YouTube and paste link in.

You will need to post pics to a photo hosting site and link them in too unless you become VIP member.
 
Fred, my VIP membership recently ran out for a little while. I could not believe the experience as a none VIP, all the pop up ads etc!

If you have anything more than a passing temporary interest, go VIP !
 
Fast Eddie said:
Fred, my VIP membership recently ran out for a little while. I could not believe the experience as a none VIP, all the pop up ads etc!

If you have anything more than a passing temporary interest, go VIP !
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it is a pain but im here for work. i have about 3 nortons to work on
 
Fred B said:
hi1 new here.
I am working at Old Motorcycle Shop in Calgary Alberta Canada. we got a 1970 matchless g16 bike to put together it has pass from original owner through 2 other people. it has Maney cases, cylinder, head, cam, crank, outrigger, and many more Maney parts. the bike was mocked up but never really assembled. Is there any one out there that could give me any instruction manuals or things that would help put it together. from my searches it look's like a 1007c kit but with more ... Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
G16? Do you mean a G15?
 
Fred B said:
the matchless is a g18 i have the motor in the cradle with the transmission working on timing breather and i don't think the maney outrigger will work for the matchless motor cradle
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That's definately so. Maney's parts were made for the Norton Commando gearbox and cradle. The outrigger will probably fit the Dominator line of bikes which used a predecessor of the Commando gearbox shell.

FYI, there never was a G18 model - you probably meant an AJS model 18, which was a rebadged Matchless G80.

Is the front frame mounting of a M18/G80 frame wide enough to house a Maney crancase shell? I am not so sure. Frame lugs were different, depending on type of engine.
You mentioned the frame dates to 1970. Manufacture of the latest M18/G80 model ended 1966, so frame may not be what you think it is.

A pre-64 frame will not be suitable for the big Norton lump. I suggest you start out with a G15 frame, as produced by the AMC (London) factory 1964--68, and made to house the Norton engine.

- Knut
 
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mdt-son said:
That's definately so. Maney's parts were made for the Norton Commando gearbox and cradle. The outrigger will probably fit the Dominator line of bikes which used a predecessor of the Commando gearbox shell.

FYI, there never was a G18 model - you probably meant an AJS model 18, which was a rebadged Matchless G80.

Is the front frame mounting of a M18/G80 frame wide enough to house a Maney crancase shell? I am not so sure. Frame lugs were different, depending on type of engine.
You mentioned the frame dates to 1970. Manufacture of the latest M18/G80 model ended 1966, so frame may not be what you think it is.

A pre-64 frame will not be suitable for the big Norton lump. I suggest you start out with a G15 frame, as produced by the AMC (London) factory 1964--68, and made to house the Norton engine.

- Knut
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my mistake knut it is a 1970 g15csr the motor, gearbox is now is and I'm working on modifying the norton maney out rigger to fit the matchless gear box position and matchless motor
gearbox mount
 
OK Fred.

I fear the G15 gearbox shell won't be able to handle the massive torque of a 1007 cc Norton engine. The shells used back in the day are of the "thin wall" type, vs. later beefed up shells. Take a look at RGM Motors' web site and you will understand the difference.
However, even beefed up shells will struggle coping with the torque of a 1007cc engine. Have you/the owner considered fitting a TTi gearbox? It will require new rear engine plates.

I guess you are making a new outrigger bracket for the bearing, or you cound fit it into the inner chaincase if the latter is beefed up. Please share some images how you get along.

I am currently looking for dimensions of the bearing supplied by Steve Maney. Would you take some readings for me? Does the bearing have some markings?

Rgds. Knut
 
HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !


IF the inner case is a firm fit on the C'case flange , Id think , say - a square plate with four screws machined for a ' output stabilizer ' bearing ,
with the inner butchered , ER - Slotted & tapped , would get a MORE DIRECT LOAD PATH . perhaps .

On a punched hooked up shift into twooth , the spang lurch , bounce . Of the Clutch Assy - spranging 2 cycles , was apparent to my ( then ) accute perception .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !


Ive seen a picture somewhere of the factry F-750 mainshaft support set up . ANYONE ? .

Now THIS is a NORTON . http://www.italian.sakura.ne.jp/bad_toys/norton/

The picture was of the BEARING ASSEMBLY / INNER CHAINCASE . tho I cant recall the exact palaver .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !


OBVIOUSLY - Load Path - primary & secondary chains - Some Blokes'd even put a bearing at the OUTSIDE END of the Clutch - there - to ensure full uncompromised
alignment .
The PROBLEM was the gear box shafts , in use , ( if ridden by man iacs ) BOW . and the gear teeth arnt where they should be . and chew each other up .
A perenial Norton Problem .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !

1955 we're told . You can SEE , to right of nut , where you COULD put a support bearing .
HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !


Commando under , spindley wee thingo , eh .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !


anda Quaife , with a extra gear , But They still Did It , as were the F-750 Gearset . think the Mk3 case may be stronger , for extra protection against lunacy .

BUT , if your not blowing off Hondas , theres little point . AND the Single Row Primarys a lot less alignment critical , and probly LESS overhang ( of load ) than the TRIPLEX .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !






 
A bit like this , maybe , perhaps .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !



Triumph Part . Cut of after top & bottom pairs off bolt holes . So its rectangular . or smaller . or suchlike . If its ' appropriate fit ' .

HELP!!!!! 1970 matchless g16 with a Maney complete motor !
Bit of machineing and accurate file work , but its an ancinallry bearing . They say ? .
 
For a 1007c engine to transmit its power reliably to the rear wheel for any length of time, you need to redesign the primary and gear transmission completely. The AMC gearbox was overstretched for the 650 & 750cc engines.
The inherent design flaw was that AMC maintained the old english tradituion of having primary and secondary drives at the same side. This meant a long cantilever mainshaft. For some reason, the factories didn't increase the shaft diameter as
torque increased. What they should have done - and what you should do - is install a transmission where secondary drive is spatially separated from the primary drive, i.e., placed at the opposite shaft end of the primary drive.
Such layouts were realized by Vincent and continental m/c makers such as DKW, NSU, Horex, Ducati and others.

By designing the transmission this way, the shaft cantilever length is much reduced, and the bending moments will be capped. By use of helical gears, the shaft lengths can be kept shorter than lengths required for spur gears, for a given torque.

A good starting point is using the gear cluster and shafts off a HD Sportster, 2006 and up. That's basically the route which Kenny Dreer took. All you need to do is fabricate a new gear shell and primary chaincase. This will require some design work to ensure
lines of action are in the right place, but it's not rocket science, when using the cases off a HD Sportser as a template. There are pictures of Kenny's engine mockup at this site which show how it can be done.

If this sounds like too much work, you should reconsider your project. Building on the old AMC parts will cause you much grief. My 10c


- Knut
 
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over the holidays i will figure out how to post the photos i have on the build progress.
Most things have been sorted out. The maney norton out rigger will be modified to work with the primary. the primary is cut and shaped
. Any one know what champion plugs this 1007 should run worst case i will use recommended norton plugs
 
Fred B said:
over the holidays i will figure out how to post the photos i have on the build progress.
Most things have been sorted out. The maney norton out rigger will be modified to work with the primary. the primary is cut and shaped
. Any one know what champion plugs this 1007 should run worst case i will use recommended norton plugs
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I don't know what a 1007 should normally run, but I don't think I would use a normal heat range plug on a hot motor with all those Maney bits. At least one range cooler for road use, and two for race or dyno.

N7YC is the normal Commando plug. Lower numbers are cooler for Champion so N6YC.

NGK BP7ES is normal, but cooler goes opposite so BP8ES is one range cooler.
 

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