Would a Chinese Norton be that bad ?

Fast Eddie said:
The irony here in some ways, when talking about building Norton’s in China and the poor quality we often see coming from China, is that Donington definitely demonstrated the ability to build to a high quality standard.

When I bought my 961 I fully expected, and intended, to have to change the coils and relays etc. But to the best of my ability, comparing what was fitted to the bike, to the pictures and explanations I could find, they were all genuine Bosch.

I also intended to go through the wiring and apply dielectric grease to all the connectors and re-route any poorly routed wires etc. But all the connectors were greased from the factory, and I couldn’t fault any of the wiring routing.

I never found a loose fastener on the bike either. Or an oil leak.

Furthermore, my bike never had any of the running or idling or oil in the airbox issues suffered by many.

So, they could do it...
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I agree, the bike had a general high quality production.

If SG had just concentrated on perfecting the 961, he could have sold many, and done a huge favor to the Norton marque.

My CR is a 2013 MK1, and the only issue I have is the crappy EFI when operating cold.

Many MK1 owners have this issue in one form or another.

Ditching the Jenvey TBs and switching to Keihin TBs would have solved the problem for all time.

Of course that would reduce the British content of the 961 a few percent, perhaps something that SG might think would reduce the attractiveness to potential buyers.

A tractable solution would have been to use the same faux carb -- Keihin 36mm throttle bodies that Triumph used on their gen 1 Hinckley Bonneville, with a Keihin ECU.

Would a Chinese Norton be that bad ?
Hosted on Fotki

Would a Chinese Norton be that bad ?
Hosted on Fotki



End of poor or wild idling, difficult starting, etc….
 
Fast Eddie said:
.......Donington definitely demonstrated the ability to build to a high quality standard..........

So, they could do it...
Click to expand...

The problem I saw was a lack of consistency in terms of that “high quality standard”. I haven’t had an issue with oil-in-the-airbox but I had a number of other issues that were noted elsewhere on the forum. It struck me that some of them seemed to be fairly unique which suggests it was down to whoever built a particular machine e.g. like the forum member whose brake disc bolts came undone. I expect the tech went for a coffee break and then forgot where he’d got to when he returned. There didn’t appear to be any sense of quality processes or improvement systems to deal with reported issues. Coupled with the staff turnover it just meant that new bikes continued to be delivered with problems, unless you were very lucky.

I’m happy to hang on to my 961 and after 7 years I can write it off financially, but had things not gone the way they have recently, I wouldn’t have felt comfortable buying another Norton or recommending one to a friend, simply because I didn't see evidence that the overall approach to quality had improved.
 
Not motorcycle related but an example of quality British craftsmanship. Rega, one of my favorite audio companies. Nice video about their manufacturing in England:

 
Remember when Japanese cars started to appear around 1960? Horrible crap.
Ten years later, Japanese motorcycles made the British motorcycle industry obsolete.
Now we see the same evolution in China.
Regarding quality, you can get different quality depending on the price you pay.
As usual, buy cheap, get crap.
 
italia said:
Not motorcycle related but an example of quality British craftsmanship. Rega, one of my favorite audio companies. Nice video about their manufacturing in England:
Click to expand...
This Winter I started to strip my vintage Quad/KEF system. At 30 years of age they need electrolytics replacing and anything made of rubber replacing which is going to cost a packet. I note that the Chinese have exact copies of Quad separates on the market but no idea what they sound like. British Audio manufacturers certainly knew what it took to produce HiFi but most of the known brands have moved over to Asian production now. Even Bowers & Wilkins are made in China!
 
The Japs certainly did turn that 'crap' thing around and China has proven they are able to produce very high quality well engineered stuff, but as long as folks are willing to buy junk then by God they're quite willing to keep making it... I would figure that being it enables them to have adequate free time to continue the persecution of their own peoples.... Sorry... Just had to take a shot at the lousy commies. Nothing personal though.
 
jbruney said:
The Japs certainly did turn that 'crap' thing around and China has proven they are able to produce very high quality well engineered stuff, but as long as folks are willing to buy junk then by God they're quite willing to keep making it... I would figure that being it enables them to have adequate free time to continue the persecution of their own peoples.... Sorry... Just had to take a shot at the lousy commies. Nothing personal though.
Click to expand...
I was going to mention that the crap that they send overseas has nothing on the internal political/human rights/animal welfare crap but thought better of it :)
 
I recently bought a white plastic box to hold wet wipes for our toilet
£4.19 delivered to my toilet door in the UK all the way from China
Fantastic quality, beautifully made & designed that looks like it came from John Lewis
Makes the anticipation of wiping my bottom a total pleasure just looking at it:)
 
italia said:
Not motorcycle related but an example of quality British craftsmanship. Rega, one of my favorite audio companies. Nice video about their manufacturing in England
Click to expand...

MxMartin said:
....... British Audio manufacturers certainly knew what it took to produce HiFi but most of the known brands have moved over to Asian production now. Even Bowers & Wilkins are made in China!
Click to expand...

I remember Rega turntables from the 1970s, although I went with the Linn LP12 which I believe are still hand made in the UK. I did go with Yamaha speakers though (NS1000M). Looking at eBay it's interesting that the quality audio stuff is selling for good money these days, more than I paid for it (ignoring inflation). Unfortunately with tinnitus and deteriorating hearing it's wasted on me now.
 
You wouldn’t get the same quality of bike if Norton was made outside of the uk don’t think people outside the uk understand the passion love and understanding of a one off work of art made by craftsman and fellow bikers quality control would certainly be a issue, from past experience have had a few old Harley’s and the quality ie chrome ect was 2nd to none also have had the modern ones most chrome don’t last finish is poor and many parts made in China certainly would not buy a foreign norton Churchill would be spinning
 
Some are forgetting that China and India own a fair amount of UK engineering. There is a Chinese foundry in the UK that does the samples, customer approves, then manufacture is done in China.
Likewise China now uses a lot of the UK capacity to do small batches of 2 - 5000 items which are then shipped straight into Europe.
Just how much of the latter 961 is UK made, I suspect much was made in India by Kinetic, and many other 3rd party supplied parts from other places on the planet.
A lot of what is considered Japanese is actually Chinese, Kawasaki ER twin engine was never made in Japan but it sold and reviews were good over the years.
Realistically there is no chance of a UK made Norton, UK assembled yes, but to make all the parts in the UK and expect all the suppliers to keep parts flowing to keep assembly going with no down time, not a chance.
If the design is right, quality acceptable, price is right, then I'd buy no matter where it is made.
Can you imagine the stick JLN got when he used a Peugeot engine. I suspect British engine manufacturers treated him as a turncoat for not using British.
 
Madnorton said:
A lot of what is considered Japanese is actually Chinese....

If the design is right, quality acceptable, price is right, then I'd buy no matter where it is made.
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That's right.
I know Zongshen supplies many castings, parts to Suzuki.
The key is to have your QA/QC people in the Chinese factory so that only quality parts are shipped.
 
BritTwit said:
The key is to have your QA/QC people in the Chinese factory so that only quality parts are shipped.
Click to expand...

... and keep your workforce on site 24/7, in dorms, spending 'factory' money so they can't be influenced by the outside world, It keeps the costs down and the QC high. The Western traders tried that about 250 years ago and Gov'ts fought wars to banish it, but the corps are bigger and stronger than the govt's now.
 
Sorry Guys, it could be the finest built motorcycle ever, but a Chinese Norton just doesn't sit well. It loses whatever Gravitas the Norton name carries.
At least in the eyes of this Blue collar layman.
BTW, I feel the same about the India built Enfield and the India built Harley's..

OK, Flame away........
 
NPeteN said:
I won't even buy clothing made in China...

IMO a new Chinese Norton is worse than no new Norton's at all.
Click to expand...
Imagine there are 2 major players in piston aviation engines, Lycoming & Continental

and
http://www.continentalmotors.aero/
We serve OEMs, flight schools, fleet customers, and pilots out of our manufacturing and service centers across the US, Europe, and China.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Aerospace_Technologies
Continental Aerospace Technologies is an aircraft engine manufacturer located at the Brookley Aeroplex in Mobile, Alabama, United States. It was originally spun off from automobile engine manufacturer Continental Motors Company in 1929 and owned by Teledyne Technologies until December 2010. The company is now part of Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), which is owned by the government of the People's Republic of China.
Click to expand...

Among other stuff.. they also own
https://cirrusaircraft.com/

https://cirrusaircraft.com/aircraft/
 
My 961's "British" mirror snapped off at the first sight of a spanner - assumed a UK brand as it had a Western name on the back - wrong, made in Vietnam. Replaced with bar end mirrors of quality - made by Oberon - exactly what should have been fitted in the first place! Oh, by the way, Norton were not the least bit interested when I bought it to their attention at the NEC. Lovely bike but a very strange mix of quality parts alongside crap.
 
BritTwit said:
If a Chinese factory copied the 650 twin, or V4 faithfully, or the 961 for that matter, it would be a Chinese Norton, a Chinorton.
However, I prefer Suzuki coping the 961, and producing a Norzuki, cause it name just rolls off the tongue.:cool:
Click to expand...
If it was assembled in an EU country (just to save taxes) like Romania would it become Romton?
I won't mention Estonia, you'll only get confused!
 
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