Most desirable Norton???
- Thread starter kempoyner
- Start date
The ES2 I've had for about 4 years, it was mostly restored but not used on the road. I've rebuilt the top end and repainted the head and barrels and changed a few parts that were incorrect for the year. When I first used the bike on the road, all the cables were too tight and it would rev up going round a corner. All sorted now and a lovely bike to ride.
The Manx came alone when I was looking for a more usable Inter with lights and a kick start etc. But after missing out on a Featherbed Inter and 2 plunger Inters I grabbed the Manx while I had the chance earlier this year. I've just got it road legal with a number plate, but I have to do something about the megaphone as it is extremely loud. Mounting the number plate somewhere is proving harder than I thought as it spoils the look of the back end.
The Manx came alone when I was looking for a more usable Inter with lights and a kick start etc. But after missing out on a Featherbed Inter and 2 plunger Inters I grabbed the Manx while I had the chance earlier this year. I've just got it road legal with a number plate, but I have to do something about the megaphone as it is extremely loud. Mounting the number plate somewhere is proving harder than I thought as it spoils the look of the back end.
Two lovely old singles.
You may already know this, but I think you will find if you fit a silencer that is in keeping with the original look of the Manx, it will hurt the performance and you will probably have to re-jet it as well. You could fit a Molnar or similar high-level pipe that is designed to meet decibel limits for classic racing and they do quieten them down a lot, but they won't look original. Or you could get an after-market megga and fit a flap valve to the end, operated by a cable on the clip-on. A friend of mine did this years ago on his AJS single. It muffles the sound in town and you can lift the flap valve when you are out on the open road.
What do you think?
You may already know this, but I think you will find if you fit a silencer that is in keeping with the original look of the Manx, it will hurt the performance and you will probably have to re-jet it as well. You could fit a Molnar or similar high-level pipe that is designed to meet decibel limits for classic racing and they do quieten them down a lot, but they won't look original. Or you could get an after-market megga and fit a flap valve to the end, operated by a cable on the clip-on. A friend of mine did this years ago on his AJS single. It muffles the sound in town and you can lift the flap valve when you are out on the open road.
What do you think?
I live in England, it wasn't difficult to do, you can register any bike for the road. You need insurance and a proof of year (if you want an age related number) and now, you don't even need an MOT certificate (a road worthy test) for pre 1960 vehicles. Even if it was later than 1960, you don't have to have lights on a bike (daytime use only) but it still has to be road worthy if stopped by the Police, hence I have to make it quieter, and bolt on the number plate somewhere.
That's a good idea with the flap on the megaphone
I'm going to make a baffle with a perforated tube, end plate and wadding, that can be removed if I want to parade it
That's a good idea with the flap on the megaphone
I'm going to make a baffle with a perforated tube, end plate and wadding, that can be removed if I want to parade it 
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Perhaps you should sell the manx to someone who appreciates it for what it is ? There are very few guys in Australia these days w ho have ridden the genuine item - the experience is valuable. I once rode a 1961 model 500. My triumph was a bout 5mph faster that it down the straights. On a 1 mile circuit, I was about 5 seconds a lap faster on the manx. I found out why the old A graders used to love them so much. If you got off line, you just gave it more stick. A really beautiful racing motorcycle - too good to use on public roads. I suggest you shouldn't do even one thing which might detune it, just keep it for track days and take it out and really enjoy it. I get an adrenalin rush just looking at your photo.
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Neither the barrell nor the seat look like they are long stroke manx bits . What year is it ? Have a look at the bottom fork yoke to see if it is curved downwards, the late model ones are straight, also if it has transfers instead of badges on the fork shrouds indicates a late model. The single sided brake was used up until 1961. Thanks for the photo, I've added it to my collection
Horror - don't you still have to have a brake light for daytime use on the road? Would they allow you to have the reg numbers 'velcro'ed' to the back of your leathers? :lol:
A detachable baffle would do the trick. I was thinking of something that would not involve drilling or welding, etc original Manx parts and which you could replace with the real thing when you are on the track.
No need for a side stand - you can lean it up against the wall of the pub when you go for a pint!
A detachable baffle would do the trick. I was thinking of something that would not involve drilling or welding, etc original Manx parts and which you could replace with the real thing when you are on the track.
No need for a side stand - you can lean it up against the wall of the pub when you go for a pint!
I know quite a few people with Manx's who aren't racers and don't race them. They seem to go everywhere in a van to be put on display at a show, or riden around in a parade, probably used once or twice a year. I am determined it's not going to be just a parade queen, if it's road legal I can take it out for a blast whenever I want. I am booked to take it to the I.O.M. GP next year and hopefully run it at Jurby airfield, but I can also use it on the road over the mountain curcuit on the way back to the campsite.
This is a long stroke Manx and therefore not competative against the short strokes and parts are very hard to get for the double knocker engines, so racing would be very expensive and pointless. As Stu Rogers said to me "It's the forgotten engine". You can get everything for the SOHC engine (Inter type) and new engines for the short stroke DOHC's, but nothing for the DOHC long strokes apart from a few interchangable or adaptable parts. At the I.O.M. GP this year I saw a few short stroke Manx's blown up back at the pits, and that's with new engines fitted. So I would say I was appreciating the bike for what it is, without thrashing it to destruction, and without putting it in a glass case.
There are 2 types of DOHC Manx engine, the earlier engine I think was about 1949 which was similar to an Inter botton end with a DOHC top end and a plunger frame. The later engine was about 51-53 in the Featherbed frame and had a similar bottom end to the short stroke. The short strokes came out in 1954.
Here's a picture from the 1950 Norton cataloque showing the plunger Manx with DOHC, but notice the rev drive coming from the mag cover. You can see the similarity to the Inter above it.
The 51-53 DOHC engine looks quite different. The rev drive now comes off the left side of the head and the mag chain case is a different shape with 5 screws holding it. As far as I know, the wide finned barrels were for the works bikes and the waisted finned barrels were for bike available to privateers. I could be wrong, but I'm sure that's what I've read. This picture's of a 1953 DOHC long stroke with works barrels like mine.
Here's a picture of 1952 waisted barrel engine. Restored by Ken McIntosh
This is a long stroke Manx and therefore not competative against the short strokes and parts are very hard to get for the double knocker engines, so racing would be very expensive and pointless. As Stu Rogers said to me "It's the forgotten engine". You can get everything for the SOHC engine (Inter type) and new engines for the short stroke DOHC's, but nothing for the DOHC long strokes apart from a few interchangable or adaptable parts. At the I.O.M. GP this year I saw a few short stroke Manx's blown up back at the pits, and that's with new engines fitted. So I would say I was appreciating the bike for what it is, without thrashing it to destruction, and without putting it in a glass case.
There are 2 types of DOHC Manx engine, the earlier engine I think was about 1949 which was similar to an Inter botton end with a DOHC top end and a plunger frame. The later engine was about 51-53 in the Featherbed frame and had a similar bottom end to the short stroke. The short strokes came out in 1954.
Here's a picture from the 1950 Norton cataloque showing the plunger Manx with DOHC, but notice the rev drive coming from the mag cover. You can see the similarity to the Inter above it.
The 51-53 DOHC engine looks quite different. The rev drive now comes off the left side of the head and the mag chain case is a different shape with 5 screws holding it. As far as I know, the wide finned barrels were for the works bikes and the waisted finned barrels were for bike available to privateers. I could be wrong, but I'm sure that's what I've read. This picture's of a 1953 DOHC long stroke with works barrels like mine.
Here's a picture of 1952 waisted barrel engine. Restored by Ken McIntosh
Your bike has been 'upgraded' everywhere though, to look like a later bike.
Barely recognisable as a long stroke...
Its got TLS front brake, later looking forks, later mudguards, later seat, later shocks, later cowl - and thats the cosmetic bits. Frame is either altered at the back, or different ?
Looks good though !
Barely recognisable as a long stroke...
Its got TLS front brake, later looking forks, later mudguards, later seat, later shocks, later cowl - and thats the cosmetic bits. Frame is either altered at the back, or different ?
Looks good though !
Looking very good captwk, mine should have a chromed tank like yours, but I think it's got a small patch of filler in it now, hence it's silver. Yours looks in immaculate condition
Hi Rohan, any Manx that's been raced through the years will be altered in one way or another. Bikes get dropped, engines blow up, brakes up rated etc, otherwise you get left behind. If you found one that was correct for it's year in every way, it probably hasn't done much or has had a fortune spent getting it correct and you'd need to sell your house to buy it.
The forks on mine are correct as far as I can see and the other parts you mention are ware and tear items that are easily changed. I think the main thing that confuses people is the big fin barrel that makes it look like the later short strokes.
Have a look at this 1952 long stroke DOHC Manx that was auctioned a few months ago, I e-mailed the seller before it went to auction and he wanted £35,000 for it. it went for £27,000..!
I think you may be a while listing the up-grades and makes mine look like it's just come out the factory
Hi Rohan, any Manx that's been raced through the years will be altered in one way or another. Bikes get dropped, engines blow up, brakes up rated etc, otherwise you get left behind. If you found one that was correct for it's year in every way, it probably hasn't done much or has had a fortune spent getting it correct and you'd need to sell your house to buy it.
The forks on mine are correct as far as I can see and the other parts you mention are ware and tear items that are easily changed. I think the main thing that confuses people is the big fin barrel that makes it look like the later short strokes.
Have a look at this 1952 long stroke DOHC Manx that was auctioned a few months ago, I e-mailed the seller before it went to auction and he wanted £35,000 for it. it went for £27,000..!
I think you may be a while listing the up-grades and makes mine look like it's just come out the factory
Do you have the history of your bike ?
It has genuine number(s) ?
While all this is true, manxes do get upgraded and changed and repaired if kept in battle.
But yours seems to have lost its bolt-up frame, where the others still bear a semblance of being a longstroke featherbed somewhere in their past - yours seems almost as though the engine was fitted into something later, or quelle horreur, a replica frame and entirely later parts (a made up bike) ?
P.S. Your forks have lost the lug off the back for the mudguard stay - either later forks, or someone has 'erased' any evidence of its longstroke heritage ??
Nice looking cycle though...
It has genuine number(s) ?
While all this is true, manxes do get upgraded and changed and repaired if kept in battle.
But yours seems to have lost its bolt-up frame, where the others still bear a semblance of being a longstroke featherbed somewhere in their past - yours seems almost as though the engine was fitted into something later, or quelle horreur, a replica frame and entirely later parts (a made up bike) ?
P.S. Your forks have lost the lug off the back for the mudguard stay - either later forks, or someone has 'erased' any evidence of its longstroke heritage ??
Nice looking cycle though...
Should have thought of it first, but have you checked the condition of the index plunger - the little spring loaded thingy under the big nut undeneath the box - it clicks into the camplate for the gearbox. If the nose of that plunger is worn/rounded, and not pointy like it should be, could cause problems. Worth checking first...
Rohan said:
Ah I see, I hadn't noticed that before, I will check when I go to the garage. Yes, obviously a later 50's frame as not a bolt up, but losing the droopy rear frame loop is a good thing. Much cleaner lines and with a long stroke engine, which is much more suited for what I'm doing with it. As it was pointed out, a short stroke would be wasted on me :lol:
The story goes, it was raced in Europe until the 80's when I think it blow an engine. Underwent a full, no expense spared restoration in the early 90's and was then put on display for 20 years. I can tell be the condition that the bike hasn't been riden since. I took it to Andy Savage, and we took the top end of the engine to check it over. You could see the engine had been rebuilt and not run since. We set everything up and Andy started it on the back wheel, which I was amazed at.
Check this out :lol:
http://s1080.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 1.mp4.html
However much of a bitsa Manx it is, I'm happy with it, and now I know a bit more about them, I can see that most of the Manx's I've looked at are as well, even one's selling for £27,000
Horror said:Check this out :lol:
http://s1080.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 1.mp4.html
However much of a bitsa Manx it is, I'm happy with it, and now I know a bit more about them, I can see that most of the Manx's I've looked at are as well, even one's selling for £27,000
That clip shows how well behaved an old racing single can be. I will have to try that with my G50
You should have a lot of fun with your Manx, which is what owning something like that is really about. The absolutely original and perfect Manxes are for museums and shows.
