Broken down in Nova Scotia

[Supercat]

Hi there,

My wife and I have been doing some motorcycle camping in Nova Scotia, and have unfortunately broken down just west of Halifax. We are riding a 1972 Norton commando Roadster. The bike started running badly, missing and backfiring etc. at first under load and then eventually all the time, cutting out altogether. My wife has gone in to Halifax and is flying back home to Newfoundland, so she’s sorted. Some awesome local people have been helping me out and we discovered last evening that the bike is not charging, and the battery was below 9 volts. Put a new battery in and she started and ran, sounding way better. This is after having the carb apart several times. Opened up the primary and discovered that there was very little oil in it and there is a broken link on the primary chain. The stator seemed to be bulged out a little bit and might be the root of the charging problem. We redid a couple of connections coming from the stator and ran it briefly but still not charging. Have not looked at regulator yet, but will have a look at that this morning. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

J

 

[jan nelder]

Hi there,

My wife and I have been doing some motorcycle camping in Nova Scotia, and have unfortunately broken down just west of Halifax. We are riding a 1972 Norton commando Roadster. The bike started running badly, missing and backfiring etc. at first under load and then eventually all the time, cutting out altogether. My wife has gone in to Halifax and is flying back home to Newfoundland, so she’s sorted. Some awesome local people have been helping me out and we discovered last evening that the bike is not charging, and the battery was below 9 volts. Put a new battery in and she started and ran, sounding way better. This is after having the carb apart several times. Opened up the primary and discovered that there was very little oil in it and there is a broken link on the primary chain. The stator seemed to be bulged out a little bit and might be the root of the charging problem. We redid a couple of connections coming from the stator and ran it briefly but still not charging. Have not looked at regulator yet, but will have a look at that this morning. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

J

should be able to check if alternator is producing anything . What amp-hour rating is the battery? Then we can advise on how many hours it will run the bike for with no charging happening.

 

[Carl H]

With a fully charged battery you should be able to run for an hour or more, with no lights on.

With a multi meter you can check the stator (Alternator) , one wire on a stator wire and one wire on earth ( ground) there should be no continuity. Do both stator wires to earth. MAKE sure the rotor is not rubbing the stator. It can cause major damage. Air gap the parts.

With only battery for volts, I would unplug the zener, rectififier and stator and ride and charge the bike to get home if I was close enough to "nurse the bike home" with stops to charge the bike or have a second battery to put in.

If the stator is rubbing, I would remove it and then , ride it home. Or to a local Norton guy who has some parts and knowledge. There are lots of Norton guys who race bikes from NS, I met them years ago.

 

[Supercat]

With a fully charged battery you should be able to run for an hour or more, with no lights on.

With a multi meter you can check the stator (Alternator) , one wire on a stator wire and one wire on earth ( ground) there should be no continuity. Do both stator wires to earth. MAKE sure the rotor is not rubbing the stator. It can cause major damage. Air gap the parts.

With only battery for volts, I would unplug the zener, rectififier and stator and ride and charge the bike to get home if I was close enough to "nurse the bike home" with stops to charge the bike or have a second battery to put in.

If the stator is rubbing, I would remove it and then , ride it home. Or to a local Norton guy who has some parts and knowledge. There are lots of Norton guys who race bikes from NS, I met them years ago.

Thanks folks!! Have tank off now and having a good look at connections. Did continuity test in stator wires and no connectivity to earth on either wire. Found a couple of sketchy connections. Cleaning those up. Will look to make sure stator and rotor on touching now.

 

[Supercat]

And battery is 14.7 amp hours. Stator doesn’t look to be touching rotor, but it isn’t quite evenly spaced whole way around. The primary chain has a bad link so I think I’ll have to take the stator off to deal with that if I can get chain.

 

[o0norton0o]

A single bad link across the width of a triple chain will probably make it home with no problem. An entire row of bad links will probably not. One of the subtle things you can observe if the rotor and stator have been rubbing is a rainbow like discoloration to the stator plates on the side where it's rubbing. Sometimes the heat permanently damages the windings of the stator and you need to replace it. (had that myself)

 

[Supercat]

A single bad link across the width of a triple chain will probably make it home with no problem. An entire row of bad links will probably not. One of the subtle things you can observe if the rotor and stator have been rubbing is a rainbow like discoloration to the stator plates on the side where it's rubbing. Sometimes the heat permanently damages the windings of the stator and you need to replace it. (had that myself)

Thanks!! It is just one side of one link, but the pin is moving a little. Think that would be ok? Have just cleaned up connections and found a rubbed wire. Fixed that. About to see if she is charging again now. Fingers crossed

 

[o0norton0o]

Lots of people have opened the primary and found a single bad link in their triplex chain and have not known how long they were riding around like that. You should fix it, but it shouldn't keep you from riding home unless it looks like it's going to foul the sprocket. If you can safety wire it so it's out of the way of the sprocket that might last for the ride home where you can address it properly

 

[Supercat]

Just ran it with primary cover off and tested with a multimeter. She is just below 12 volts at 1000 rpm, but is getting over 12 at 2000 and up to 13 and maybe more at between 2000 and 3000 rpm. I always thought it was charging at idle before but maybe not. But anyway, it does seem to be getting volts above 2000 rpm.

Not seeing any rainbow on the stator.

 

[Supercat]

Lots of people have opened the primary and found a single bad link in their triplex chain and have not known how long they were riding around like that. You should fix it, but it shouldn't keep you from riding home unless it looks like it's going to foul the sprocket. If you can safety wire it so it's out of the way of the sprocket that might last for the ride home where you can address it properly

Thanks for this, very much. Yeah, I have no idea how long it’s been like this, might have been for years for all I know. I like the safety wire idea.

 

[o0norton0o]

My early bike, (70 model year) has a slightly different electrical system. It has an ammeter that shows the direction of charge. At an idle my stator doesn't produce enough current to charge the battery so the ammeter is into the negative zone and the bike is running on stored battery voltage. At about 1,500 -1,800 rpms the needle moves into the positive on the ammeter. It pretty much stays there as long as I am riding around. If I come to a stop light, I'm idling on battery power until I get moving again. Having an ammeter allows you to watch the actual flow direction of charge between your rotor/stator and battery. Your findings sound completely consistent with a working rotor/stator to me...

 

[Supercat]

Thanks for the charging comment too, very much. Yeah, last night it wasn’t charging at all and the battery dropped below 9 volts, which I think accounts for the crap running and cutting out etc. We found several bad connections, including a sketchy ground, and also the wire from the stator to the assimilator was worn through against the gas tank. I wonder if that was the root of it.

 

[Supercat]

An ammeter sounds like a great idea too. If I make it home I will order one and a new primary chain immediately.

 

[grandpaul]

Wishing you best success getting home, should do. You've got all the right input, and sounds sorted...

 

[o0norton0o]

An ammeter has it's risks too, the entire wiring goes through it, so if it fails, you are dead in the water... My point was that I can see where the rpm's of the charging system begin to charge the battery and yours now sounds like it's working properly

 

[jan nelder]

a recent alternator failure ( Alton) at the NOC French rally with the big 14 Ah battery : it can power the ignition for several hours, which owner did to get 100 miles to ferry and 30 miles home in UK.

 

[Tornado]

The modern tip is to run a voltage monitor like the charge warning LED from https://improvingclassicmotorcycles.com/
rather than an ammeter.

Be sure to assess max voltage at 3k to 5k rpm...should not exceed 14.8-15.2...if it does, suspect the zener diode, eithers its grounding on the z-plate, its wire connection or an actual diode failure. Had mine not controlling volts, bloated battery up...limped home on just the alt output and 2MU capacitor.

 

[o0norton0o]

The modern tip is to run a voltage monitor like the charge warning LED from https://improvingclassicmotorcycles.com/
rather than an ammeter.

Be sure to assess max voltage at 3k to 5k rpm...should not exceed 14.8-15.2...if it does, suspect the zener diode, eithers its grounding on the z-plate, its wire connection or an actual diode failure. Had mine not controlling volts, bloated battery up...limped home on just the alt output and 2MU capacitor.

The essence of this suggestion is you get accustomed to looking at your voltmeter at all engine speeds when everything is working well, so you will pick up on the more subtle indications that a voltmeter gives of electrical problems. It gives less obvious signals, because it takes time for your battery to show significant voltage loss that you will notice, unlike an ammeter which shows current flow strength and current direction and is instantaneous. (but of course more crippling if the ammeter dies)

 

[zotz]

Too bad it's a long weekend. If you need parts you're only about an hour away from British Cycle Supply in Wolfville.

 

[N0rt0nelectr@]

Hi there,

My wife and I have been doing some motorcycle camping in Nova Scotia, and have unfortunately broken down just west of Halifax. We are riding a 1972 Norton commando Roadster. The bike started running badly, missing and backfiring etc. at first under load and then eventually all the time, cutting out altogether. My wife has gone in to Halifax and is flying back home to Newfoundland, so she’s sorted. Some awesome local people have been helping me out and we discovered last evening that the bike is not charging, and the battery was below 9 volts. Put a new battery in and she started and ran, sounding way better. This is after having the carb apart several times. Opened up the primary and discovered that there was very little oil in it and there is a broken link on the primary chain. The stator seemed to be bulged out a little bit and might be the root of the charging problem. We redid a couple of connections coming from the stator and ran it briefly but still not charging. Have not looked at regulator yet, but will have a look at that this morning. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

J

Did the chain cut the lead off of the stator? Did it smell real bad when you opened up the primary? Dead give away that you have a bad stator.