Norton trouble

[ZFD]

Not sure extradiction stops tonight. The EU divorce papers won't be ready before the end of this year.

And, no thank you, I declined for good reason to work with the man for the last decade and most certainly won't start now.

Plus my customers aren't satisfied with hot air, they expect the real, fair deal.

 

[Fast Eddie]

£30m debt, and how many 961's built ? likely less than 400 ? When we do the matts, that's 75.000 per motorcycle built, something seriously wrong with Nortons business model.

Not at all, it was all down to taxes and Brexit...

 

[olympus]

Maybe he was just a playboy living the dream, raising money came easy, big country pads and an extravigant lifestyle on other people's money. Maybe/probably the intention was there to make it all work and everyone involved would be happy but then got too wrapped up in the lifestyle and taking risks?

That Dog collar & teeth veneers must have been relatively cheap

 

[Bernhard]

That Dog collar & teeth veneers must have been relatively cheap

And like Al Capone, it was the taxman that was his downfall!

 

[CoconutJo75]

Fast moving this news isn’t it , wonder what’s going happen next ? & no need to cancel my service on April 9th now , will def try “ Prime Factor Motorcycle’s “ in redhill Surrey now .

Geoff and Ash there are fantastic. I’d love to know their view on all of this.

 

[Eljahara]

Geoff and Ash there are fantastic. I’d love to know their view on all of this.

Ash left some time ago.

 

[Bodger]

With the benefit of hindsight two huge red flags: (1) the purchase of Donnington Hall - absent special circumstances (and even at a give away price it would make more sense to flip it) what serious manufacturer purchases a non industrial building and then "adapts" it for industrial production; and (2) no serious attempt at selling in the US market - apart from being the biggest consumer market in the world - the biggest market for the original Commando and thus the largest legacy market for a Commando "themed" modern Norton.

 

[Clive]

As a pre anniversary CR owner I can ride along looking nostalgically at my ‘Made at Donnington Hall’ badge

 

[Bernhard]

With the benefit of hindsight two huge red flags: (1) the purchase of Donnington Hall - absent special circumstances (and even at a give away price it would make more sense to flip it) what serious manufacturer purchases a non industrial building and then "adapts" it for industrial production; and (2) no serious attempt at selling in the US market - apart from being the biggest consumer market in the world - the biggest market for the original Commando and thus the largest legacy market for a Commando "themed" modern Norton.

There were loads of red flags going up before all this. . . but SG has found that he cannot jiggle the balls anymore and all his chickens have come home to roost!

 

[BLIGHTYBRIT/SF]

Geoff and Ash there are fantastic. I’d love to know their view on all of this.

Yes Steve , ash, Henry, rob , Ian & Dom ( pair that built my Bike) all good & friendly , got the impression a lot of the guys there treated customers like they like to be treated themselves ,& had their hands tied in the end , but they didn’t stay there too long , Karen was great also , but she left around October 2016

 

[BritTwit]

With the benefit of hindsight two huge red flags: (1) the purchase of Donnington Hall - absent special circumstances (and even at a give away price it would make more sense to flip it) what serious manufacturer purchases a non industrial building and then "adapts" it for industrial production; and (2) no serious attempt at selling in the US market - apart from being the biggest consumer market in the world - the biggest market for the original Commando and thus the largest legacy market for a Commando "themed" modern Norton.

Spot on.
The complicating factor in your item# 2 is that from day one, owner complaints doomed Norton's attempts to succeed in the US market.
SG needed to squelch the complaints by rapidly addressing them and resolving them.
Some of the problems required redesign, or replacement of components to resolve them.

SG decided instead to spend funds to try and recapture old glory at IoM, and design new, modern, unneeded models.
The money would have been better spent redesigning the 961 to bring it up to snuff with the expectations of the motorcycling public.
A 961 as reliable, and easy to maintain as a Honda would have easily sold by the truck load in the US.

Water under the bridge now, unfortunately.
Now we'll have to wait for the next victim to acquire the Norton marque and try again.
It's a bit like Groundhog Day.

 

[Bernhard]

Geoff and Ash there are fantastic. I’d love to know their view on all of this.

I think anybody who is still there, well, might remain quite in the vain hope they will get their jobs back, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Personally, I don’t believe the 961 needed a big redesign or any big money throwing at it at all.

There IS a market for a bike just like the 961... but built properly!

A more sensible procurement strategy and process to ensure bought in components are fit for purpose, a proper ‘quality feedback loop’ to take issues found in the field and trace them back to the root cause in assembly / supply / etc and good operations management to ensure that the issues are resolved and stay resolved. It’s not rocket science. It’s pretty bloody basic.

The above would have irradiated the vast majority of repetitive issues on the 961.

Garner is a good speaker, a smooth talker, and he fell into the trap of thinking he could just talk his way around issues INSTEAD OF dealing with them.

This whole debacle will make a great case study for Operations Management students one day...

EDIT: Ignore all of the above... I forgot it was all down to “taxes and Brexit”...

 

[74ok]

Garner is a good speaker, a smooth talker, and he fell into the trap of thinking he could just talk his way around issues INSTEAD OF dealing with them.

This whole debacle will make a great case study for Operations Management students one day...

EDIT: Ignore all of the above... I forgot it was all down to “taxes and Brexit”...

"To book Stuart for your next event, contact us today"

https://thespeakersagency.com/speaker/stuart-garner/

"Stuart Garner has a wonderful way of delivering his speeches and his audiences are genuinely enraptured by his story, advice, observations and future plans."
The Speakers Agency

I remember when credible folks here were calling it like it was & said they couldn't even get gaskets.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-01-30/pension-holders-lose-out-amid-the-crash-of-norton-motorcycles/

 

[Bernhard]

"To book Stuart for your next event, contact us today"

https://thespeakersagency.com/speaker/stuart-garner/

"Stuart Garner has a wonderful way of delivering his speeches and his audiences are genuinely enraptured by his story, advice, observations and future plans."
The Speakers Agency

Sorry if I'm being caustic, but S G can talk the talk, which he appears to have be doing since acquiring Norton, but can he walk the walk? . . . I'll leave you to answer that one.

 

[Madnorton]

I believe the extradition to the UK will stop tonight for certain country's outside the EU that have deals with the EU as a block. Seeing as the UK will not be part of that block from 2300 we would be excluded. Between the EU and UK themselves that will no doubt have to be resolved in the coming months.

 

[concours]

I’ve followed the rebirth of Norton, casually. I only have a vintage Commando. Triumph beat the odds of failure. Many, many other rebirths did not. Indian in the US several times. The latest is just a HUGE spending by Polaris, the burden going on snowmobile & ATV buyers. Instead of R & D, better components, lower prices, there ate artificially sustaining Indian.
The bike sales numbers can not come close to the startup & operating cost. I’m sorry to see the Norton company fail. The V4 race bike was very impressive.
I hope you all get your bikes back with no drama.

 

[byjefsm]

SAD but expected...... suggest Forum readers look at yesterday's Globe article.... its on internet......a real con job from the beginning. Lots of folks including Norton employees left holding the bag.......Hopefully someone will pick up the toolling for the Atlas and bring it to fruition

 

[BritTwit]

Ricardo designed or developed the V4 1200, and the 650 engines.
Were they paid in full for their effort, or are they one of the creditors in this action again Norton?
Does Norton own the engine designs outright?

 

[Madnorton]

With the benefit of hindsight two huge red flags: (1) the purchase of Donnington Hall - absent special circumstances (and even at a give away price it would make more sense to flip it) what serious manufacturer purchases a non industrial building and then "adapts" it for industrial production; and (2) no serious attempt at selling in the US market - apart from being the biggest consumer market in the world - the biggest market for the original Commando and thus the largest legacy market for a Commando "themed" modern Norton.

Hang on, (2) so where did all the bikes go? Norton America paid nearly $5 million for a nice pad in Minesota and used it for the address to register the UK export guarantee finance scheme. You can look up the scheme on the .Gov website and see what figure they wanted financed for that address. Guess who owns Norton America and the company doing the exporting. Looks like the UK taxpayer paid again.