Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies

So I know your first question, what is Wheelbuilding 101? Well, that was the class I was going to take. It involves take your hubs out of the current wheels and sending them to Buchanan's. Along with some tire, tubes and about $1000 (I came up with $936.30 for shouldered Excel rims plus all the labor to mount, balance, etc. Toss in shipping and you're about $1k). And they send you back some beautiful wheels. Really beautiful I hear.

Except now my wheel budget has diminished and now I have to look at other options. Because I may have already chopped the hubs out of the old wheels... and since I have planned to go with Plan 1/A I wasn't concerned with offsets or any of that nonsense. :roll:

So basically I have two stripped hubs and no wheels.

The first step is Research.

Research will involve shopping for the best price and determine if I will actually save any money doing more work myself.

My first question is whether to use the Stainless Spoke/Stainless Nipples or Stainless Spokes and Nickle/Steel Nipples Kits from Buchanan's? I know far too well how easy it is to gall stainless on stainless, but if you use anti-seize it should be ok. Right?

Second, I found Steadfast Cycle offers the exact rims I want for a bit less than Buchanan's. Steadfast wants $375 for a pair, compared to $450 from Buchanan's. I need to do some more research on Steadfast but that's a pretty good deal.



Once I've figured out where to source the parts I need to figure out the labor part. I'm pretty sure I can loose lace them but I'm more concerned about truing and mounting and balancing the tires without messing up the rims.

I can tell you that my experience with Steadfast has been good. Brandon is a standup guy, very nice fellow, and he has done right by me. Good luck- I will look forward to the posts! eric

Great post here: rims-and-spokes-for-roadster-t8446.html

A lot of great info. But I don't think there was much resolution. It would be interesting to see what T95 ended up doing.

swooshdave said:

Great post here: rims-and-spokes-for-roadster-t8446.html

A lot of great info. But I don't think there was much resolution. It would be interesting to see what T95 ended up doing.

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Hey Dave,
Unfortunately, I haven't made a purchase yet. At the time I posted I was looking at the Waldridge sale and ready to jump. I guess the owner was out of town and he never got back to me. I am now leaning towards central wheel in the UK. It looks like they may be the source for most of the part houses, they drill and build and have a good rim selection. I believe the shipping for two rims and spokes was under $60. I have read here that you may need several weeks if your looking for them to build.

I know I have said this before but you can find allot of info on building wheels and don't overlook searching build info for bicycle wheels. Same principles, just exaggerated dishing and tensioning.

Sorry, the ball is back in your court!
http://www.central-wheel.co.uk/rims/rims.html

I just built up a set of 17's for my project. I used some modified harley hubs, ss spokes and nipples from buchanons and new akront rims off of ebay. I loose laced them myself, and have a guy in town true and tighten for $35 a wheel. I had my buddy who owns a harley shop mount the tires for $20 each. So I did both wheels including tires tubes spokes lacing and mounting for around $900. Call around town to the harley shops looking for a wheel guy, if you find one that had been doing it for a long tome, he'll probably have done norton wheels.

Dave,
I rebuilt my wheels with original style WM2 rims from Walridge and his single gauge spokes. You already seem to have your rims picked out, so all you need now are the spokes. Notice they come in two types, single gauge and double gauge, the single are about $75/set of stainless and the double are double that, at least at Walridge. My bike came with the double gauge, but for the expense I decided the cheaper route. I can dig up the links I had for building and truing if you like, they are easy to find. It takes about an hour or so to lace up the wheel. Once you know how to do it, it takes about 15 or 20 minutes. Mine were within probably 3mm right off the bat, so it will take as long as you like to true them. You can make a stand or do them on the bike. I'm not sure you even need a dial gauge, just some kind of pointer that is stable and won't dance around. Once you get them under 1mm runout and out of round, that's good enough for a road bike, racing will take more care. Mine ended up under 1/2 mm. Notice that you want to measure the runout from the inside of the rim where the bead mounts, and ignore that little blip where they are welded together.

I'm sure Buchannan's does a fine job, but I ended up spending about $325/wheel, and I know the offset is right, I measured it on the bike from the center of the frame tube. I don't know how anyone can get the offset right if they don't have the bike and wheels together.

Dave
69S

I had Woody's Wheel Works in Denver build the wheels for my 850. I was tempted to do it myself, I've built lots of bicycle wheels, but the Norton front disk wheel is a tricky one with that huge offset. So I let the pro do it.

Woody's charges $100 per wheel to build them, and I think an additional $20 or so per wheel to disassemble the old wheels. Then you would have round trip shipping, which might be another $100, unless you find a local wheel builder. I wouldn't give that front wheel to someone who hasn't done a few before. If you decide to tackle it yourself, read up on it first.

I've bought lots of stuff from Steadfast and have always have good service from them.

good luck,
Debby

I've built wheels and had Buchannans do them for me...I've made the decision that Buchannans is worth the money.

1. I can't do the job as well as Buchannans
2. I can't do it as quickly as Buchannans (time is money)
3. The entire wheel never looks as good when I do it compared to Buchannans

To my eyes, it's VERY easy to walk up to a bike and tell if the rims were done professionally or by the owner...my eyes don't like my own wheel work.

The only other thing I will always do is have the CNW treatment on the hubs.

To me wheels are a one shot deal...I don't want to pay for the same wheels twice by doing them a second time...I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago.

I have a couple local sources for truing the wheels. You'll love one of the choices. I'll discuss those after I have figured out the parts. Thanks for the responses so far. :mrgreen:

Hi Dave,
Too bad we live so far apart from each other. If you were my neighbor I'd lace, true, and mount your tires for the price of a beer and some conversation.

GB

geo46er said:

Hi Dave,
Too bad we live so far apart from each other. If you were my neighbor I'd lace, true, and mount your tires for the price of a beer and some conversation.

GB

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It might be cheaper for me to fly out there with some beer and some wheel parts. :mrgreen:

swooshdave said:

geo46er said:

Hi Dave,
Too bad we live so far apart from each other. If you were my neighbor I'd lace, true, and mount your tires for the price of a beer and some conversation.

GB

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It might be cheaper for me to fly out there with some beer and some wheel parts. :mrgreen:

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Dave, I think you are about right.

Wheel building is a lost art, so my goal is to learn the art. I just laced a set of mid-60's Yamaha wheels & set them up with a dial indicator.

Then, my good friend Jerry finished the task of truing and they look great! Basically beer money, but I'm fortunate to have a talented friend.

BTW, I had to salvage vintage spokes to be accurate. Cleaned them, then gave them a re-zinc treatment (Eastwood Supply). They are nice as new!!
Stephen

builder said:

1. I can't do the job as well as Buchannans
2. I can't do it as quickly as Buchannans (time is money)
3. The entire wheel never looks as good when I do it compared to Buchannans

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I'm currently in that challenging position of having more time than money. So if I can save a little with my extra time, I need to.

Of course I see the bike as a long term investment and I doubt if it stays all together for the rest of it's life.

I have one friend who use to take his bikes apart every winter. Sometimes they went back together the same, sometime they changed.

Dave,

Give Mike a call at Walridge. You've missed the fall sale, but Walridge's prices are good, and Mike is a valuable resource regarding Norton parts and advice. I personally enjoy building wheels, but it does take some patience and attention to detail. On my Mk3, there are two types of spokes for the front wheel, and three for the rear wheel; somethimes only the head angle differentiates the spoke types. Since you no longer have a model to lace by, you may want to locate a properly laced front and rear wheel (of your model Commando) to get the spoke crossings correct (some rear wheels are 2-cross on one side, and 3-cross on the other) and the dish approximately right.

There have been several postings here in the past year on this subject. The majority of those posting, including myself, favored nickel-plated steel nipples with stainless spokes; lubricate the nipples and spoke threads before assembly. It's really a fun task, if you have the time.

I enjoyed rebuilding mine, and I don't think a pro job would have looked or been any better. I'm not sure it's a lost art. Yes, Mike will give you all the correct parts, at least he did on mine, everything went together without a hitch, except I did have to bend the spoke angles tighter on the rear wheel, but he told me about that too. I was worried that I would get wrong spoke holes in the rim, etc., but everything looks good, went together and looks just like the original, which is what I wanted.

Dave
69S

Dave, being that you are in Portland, which has more bicycle shops than anyplace in the country, I'd check some of the bike shops to see if anyone has experience with motorcycle wheels. I've found motorcycle wheels to be a lot more forgiving than bicycle wheels. The biggest problem may be finding a shop with a truing stand that will hold your wheels, but I'm sure someone will be able to take care of it. It would be good to have offset figures for the builder as bicycle wheels are always centered between the locknuts and Norton wheels aren't. I'd suggest starting with Jack at EnSelle - he's built lots of wheels and if he can't or won't do it, he'll probably know who can. Good luck!

Flanged alloy 19in WM2 with Stainless Spoke and Nickel plated nipples. I'll note if the vendor doesn't specifically call out these exact specs.

Pricing:

Buchanan's
Rims $225ea (Excel)(Wm2 or WM3)
Spoke Kit $85.40ea
$628.80

Walridge
Rims CAN$220.45ea (VALANTE AND MORAD)(WM3 $250.79ea)
Spoke Kit CAN$89.95ea
CAN$620.80

Steadfast
Rims $187.50ea (Excel)(Does not offer a WM3 price that I could find)
Spoke Kit $120ea (I suspect these are SS spoke and nipples)
$615

CNW (updated 3-2, prices match Buchanans)
Rims $225ea (Excel)(Wm2 or WM3)
Spoke Kit $85.40ea
$628.80

Old Britts seems to be inline with Buchanan's on pricing.

My comments:
The Morads from Walridge are apparently the successors to Akront and may use that original tooling. That's a plus in my book.
It would be interesting to see what the price from Steadfast for the WM3s would be.
I almost want to ask Matt at CNW why apparently two identical rims are $1 different, and how on earth you tell the difference between the front and rear rim, but for the posted price I don't want to bother him. :mrgreen: I assume the holes are drilled differently for the front disk/rear drum?

There is no job more satisfying than building your own wheels. It is not rocket science but it does take patience to do everything right and in the correct order. There are many good resource on the internet that describe wheel building. If you are just building stock wheels and not fitting different rims or hubs then it shouldn't be beyond the average mechanic's skill set. Four things I would suggest. The first is take a lot of pictures. There is nothing like getting a wheel apart and forgetting how it goes back together. The second is measure the wheel/hub offset and make a jig out of wood or stiff cardboard. Make a note of where you measured the offset and how to use this jig. Better yet take some pictures. Number three is take your time. Building your own wheels is not a race but a Zen like process that when done right leave you with an internal calm (well it does me.) And lastly, buy or build a truing stand. They are not too difficult to knock together if you can weld or know someone that can. Set up your workspace so the wheel you are truing is convenient to your hand and that you are comfortable making the necessary adjustment to get the wheel true.

Big_Jim59 said:

There is no job more satisfying than building your own wheels. It is not rocket science but it does take patience to do everything right and in the correct order. There are many good resource on the internet that describe wheel building. If you are just building stock wheels and not fitting different rims or hubs then it shouldn't be beyond the average mechanic's skill set. Four things I would suggest. The first is take a lot of pictures. There is nothing like getting a wheel apart and forgetting how it goes back together. The second is measure the wheel/hub offset and make a jig out of wood or stiff cardboard. Make a note of where you measured the offset and how to use this jig. Better yet take some pictures. Number three is take your time. Building your own wheels is not a race but a Zen like process that when done right leave you with an internal calm (well it does me.) And lastly, buy or build a truing stand. They are not too difficult to knock together if you can weld or know someone that can. Set up your workspace so the wheel you are truing is convenient to you hand and that you are comfortable making the necessary adjustment to get the wheel true.

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I fail on all four points.

Not that it will stop me. :mrgreen: