Wheel rebuilding

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Chucktri

Chucktri

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I have to replace the rear rim of my '69 Commando. I have the rim and hub, but am wondering if I should use stainless steel spokes or not. What are the pros & cons?

Thanks,

Chuck Contrino
INOA # 177
 
Stainless are more expensive, usually, and must be fitted to the nipples using a certain lubricant.
They stay nicer looking for ages.
Buchanans in CA sells them in kit form, perfectly sized. Don't forget to dish that wheel 1/8" off center, to the right.
 
Realize there are double gauge spokes and single gauge spokes. The double will cost twice as much. I got the single gauge SS from Walridge during their winter sale for about $75, but that was probably 5 years ago.
 
IMHO :? , I do not recommend pretty aftermarket stainless steel spokes for anything but shiny noridey show bikes.
 
I've used them on every wheel I've built. Never a problem and they stay nice and shiny.
 
madass140 said:
why is that Jimbo?
Click to expand...


Years ago when my wife and I traveled cross country fast with the Interstate I had spokes break , a couple of different times. The wheel builder , Buchanan's did not seem to be concerned. But I was ! Maybe they are better now, everyone seems to be using them.
 
had my rear wheel on my 70 Commando also relaced with stainless spokes and today I found two spokes broken.

The seller answered:
Thanks for your enquiry, we give a lifetime guarantee on wheels we build with stainless spokes so its quite likely that the wheel was not tensioned correctly and as the spokes worked loose they will then break....

I fitted the spokes myself and had them centered by a friend.

I am thinking of replating my old spokes which have a thicker end towards the hub.
 
I order my stainless spokes to my own spec, I go up one gauge for straight spokes or for butted spokes go for the thicker gauge full length, never had a spoke break.
 
kommando said:
I order my stainless spokes to my own spec, I go up one gauge for straight spokes or for butted spokes go for the thicker gauge full length, never had a spoke break.
Click to expand...
I bet that's the secret, make them thick enough and they approach the strength of OEM carbon steel
 
approach the strength of OEM carbon steel
Click to expand...

That was the intention and it seems to work, the exception I made recently was on a T140 disc rear where I went up 2 gauges as the std gauge in zinc plated steel was prone to failure, time will tell on that one as its not turned a wheel yet.
 
the t140 disc rear wheel was a dismal failure as far as spokes go. we used to replace the spokes with Z900 front wheel spokes back in the day. I had
one of these wheels let go at 100mph. I wouldnt hesitate to use straight 8G spokes stainless with 7.1mm nipples
 
That's exactly what I fitted, straight 8G in 4 sets of 10 with 2 different lengths and 2 head angles. For some reason the rim came with one side holes indexed differently but it had a badly rusted CWC rim on it and they did not always follow the factory anyway, the new rim was a very flashy looking Devon stainless which trued very easily.
 
madass140 said:
the t140 disc rear wheel was a dismal failure as far as spokes go.
Click to expand...

kommando said:
That was the intention and it seems to work, the exception I made recently was on a T140 disc rear where I went up 2 gauges as the std gauge in zinc plated steel was prone to failure, time will tell on that one as its not turned a wheel yet.
Click to expand...



The factory increased the spoke gauge and nipple diameter (therefore a new rim was also required) during the 1977 model season, which cured the spoke breakages far as I'm aware.

Spokes generally break because they're not under sufficient tension, and just because a spoke 'rings' that doesn't necessarily mean it's tight enough.
 
The Buchanan kit I bought ( KNORT712SZ NORTON ATLAS/COMMANDO FRONT or REAR DRUM to 19" RIM - S/Z $115.50 ) has double gauge spokes, 10 at the rim and thicker 8 at the hub.
I might have ordered straight 8 gauge, but they don't off such a thing with .250 nipples, which is what my stock rim required.
You cd probably order a custom set, but you'd need to know all the other specs such as exact length, angle of the bend, and the length of the bend.
Unless you are williing to break through the chrome plating on the rim at every spoke hole and drill them out to .281" (or are lucky enough to have a rim already punched like that), you are probably constrained to 10 gauge at the rim.
Here's the Buchanans Commando page: http://www.buchananspokes.com/products/ ... norton.asp
If you order them, ask them for some extra special sauce to lube the threads.

BTW: Don Pender (madass140) sells SS spoke kits, too, described as 8 gauge, appear to be 8 all the way (not stepped down to 10), but does not give the nipple diameter: http://www.tritonmotorcycleparts.com/29 ... tid=146825
 
I've had over 20 sets of wheels laced by Buchanan's, more than 3/4 of them with stainless spokes, over the last 20 years. Nortons, Triumphs & BSAs.

ZERO failures, zero issues of ANY kind.
 
The factory increased the spoke gauge and nipple diameter (therefore a new rim was also required) during the 1977 model season, which cured the spoke breakages far as I'm aware.
Click to expand...

Hence I went up 2 gauges, 1 to follow the factory change and 1 more to compensate for stainless being lower tensile strength than steel.

Spokes generally break because they're not under sufficient tension, and just because a spoke 'rings' that doesn't necessarily mean it's tight enough.
Click to expand...

But when going to stainless you are changing the tensile strength to a lower valve and also lowering the elastic limit, if the application is stressing the spoke beyond the elastic limit the spoke will permanently lengthen and so lose tension. No amount of initial tension will change that, as the factory found for the pre 77 wheels when they went too light on the gauge.

Stainless spokes are the best choice but you have to consider the change in material properties and adjust the gauge. You also have to consider the head bend as stainless will bend differently too.
 
kommando said:
Spokes generally break because they're not under sufficient tension, and just because a spoke 'rings' that doesn't necessarily mean it's tight enough.
Click to expand...

But when going to stainless you are changing the tensile strength to a lower valve and also lowering the elastic limit, if the application is stressing the spoke beyond the elastic limit the spoke will permanently lengthen and so lose tension. No amount of initial tension will change that, as the factory found for the pre 77 wheels when they went too light on the gauge.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree it's a good idea to play safe and 'go up a gauge' when changing to stainless but I think there's a common misconception that just fitting thicker spokes will either prevent or cure spoke breakage, but no matter how thick spokes are they are still liable to break if not tensioned sufficiently.
 
I had some shouldered Excel wheels built recently:
19” Front wheel with 8/9 gauge SS spokes
18” Rear wheel with 8/10 gauge SS spokes
 
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