What Ignition

Yes he did, but I just got the standard sales pitch I reckon. No mention of and advantage.

cash said:

I'm worried Pazon is just a Boyer clone with a couple of nice mods. I asked Pazon where their producted bettered Boyer's, they didn't tell me. :?

Cash

Click to expand...

.... I've been a lurker here for some time but wanted to chime in on this one.

I'm a member of another British bike group. First want to make it clear than I am not connected to the Pazon company in any way. Here's an exerpt from Andy at Pazon; it provides a bit of history and some "theory" behind their product:

Hi fellow BritBikers,
We would just like to comment on the earlier post from John Healy.

Yes, my wife and I were the management and technical team for Boyer-Bransden.

It is true that I worked on the digital ignition systems for & on behalf of Boyer-Bransden, but this was on the software side only. I had to work with the hardware designed by Ernie Bransden and I had no input on that side of things. I was restricted by the designs given to me. This is one of the reasons why we decided to leave the company, because technology is always moving forward but we felt that the corporate bs at Boyer was stifling creativity. So, it would be true to say that we did not 'design & manufacture' the Boyer Micro-Power (or Micro-Digital) ignition. The Boyer Micro-Digital & Micro-Power ignitions are essentially a MK3 design with a microcontroller ('chip') added in. Therefore this is not a fully digital design. Our Smart-Fire ignition system uses cutting-edge technology and is a fully digital system throughout, from trigger, to module through to the ignition coil. Comparing our system to the Boyer Micro-Power is a bit like comparing chalk & cheese or north & south.

We hope this sets the record straight.

Regards,

Andy & Debbie
PAZON IGNITIONS


[end of quote].


Actually, I am more interested myself in what wrench had asked earlier in this post, in how an electronic ignition working with older aspects of the bike, for example, an older Lucas alternator and such might relate. We sometimes look at bike parts a little too individually, in my opinion, and not on how they influence - for better or worse - the other systems. At times they may not seem to relate to each other, but....

uhs

Sounds OK, though the Pazon unit still requires the Hall effect to work (is that digital?) which as we all know the sending of can be a Boyer weakness. I'd like to know how they've improved reliablity and enhanced the ignition spark etc.

Where as, Trispark explain their advantages and improvements in plain English that a numpty like me can understand.

Having said all that my old faithful is working so well I reckon I'll keep it on for the remainder of this year. Perhaps the reason for it's performace might be due to the gradual upgrading of the electrical system over the years it wasn't fitted. Who knows?

For me at the moment it looks like Trispark are winning the argument.

Cash

A Hall device is a sensor that reacts to a moving magnet or a ferrous object.

Whether digital or analog depends on the circuit design the Hall outputs to, after all the Hall device is just a solid state version of points in that it generates an electrical pulse which is either a one or a zero. So points could be considered digital :wink:

Digital or analog depends on how that pulse is manipulated. Analog usually amplifies, wave shapes and oscillates the pulse then feeds it to the coils at a much higher voltage.

Digital will take the pulse and feed it through a digital device that can be programmed for various parameters before it is amplified and fed to the coils.

A very simplistic explanation. Hope it helps.

It turns out the Micropower and Microdigital units require 20 degs more static advance than the Mk3. Instead of aligning the timing hole with the white dot I was told to align to half the magnet. Guess what, it worked, got the motor running well enough to strobe the timing.
I reckon I'll give the blue box another chance, the motor does seem to run smoother.
As they say there's always a silver lining behind every dark cloud. While the ignition was off I checked the cam chain and found the tensioner rubber just worn through. Yes it can be changed without removing the chain. Remove the bottom stud and just roll the tensioner over the chain.

Cash

Cash, I was just about to reply to your earlier posting before reading your last one. For member's general reference I would always check the timing of a Boyer (or indeed any other) system where I had only changed the box as I have found that there is sometimes a large discrepancy between 'internal' timings (ie inside the box) and the physical timing of the magnet and sensor.

I do agree, in this case however, both units were on the static timing mark and from my experience a motor will run quite well. The Micropower unit wouldn't, it struggled to start and fraped and banged. Boyer told me to set the Micropower's static timing 20degs advanced ie half a magnet not the white dot, apparently that's what the instructions say. I couldn't find any referece to the difference in static timing, probably looking in the wrong instruction. If I wasn't it's something that needs noting. But what the heck all's well that ends well.

Thanks,
Cash

cash said:

Boyer told me to set the Micropower's static timing 20degs advanced ie half a magnet not the white dot, apparently that's what the instructions say. I couldn't find any referece to the difference in static timing, probably looking in the wrong instruction. If I wasn't it's something that needs noting.

Click to expand...

Neither of the instruction sheets for fitting the Commando Micro Digital or Micro Power ignitions published on the Boyer website mention setting the magnet halfway across the hole.

Both instruction sheets say,

Quote:

"The magnet on one side of the rotor should now be in the centre of the top timing hole in the stator plate;"

http://www.boyerbransden.com/html/data_sheets.html

Perhaps they need to be told about this?

LAB
Exactly.
I did say to Boyer I couldn't find any reference to to any other method of static timing other than aligning the white dot. Boyer's reply was "could you not" which put doubt in my mind, end of conversation. Perhaps it's a trick they've recently picked up and haven't put it into their instructions.
Had I ignored the poor running and used the strobe all would have been well. My own fault I guess.
With bit of luck I'll have the reliability I had with the old Anologue units.

Cash

Trispark

cash said:

Steve,
How much did you pay for yours? no one will give me a price.

Cash

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sorry Cash .... been of the air (internet ) for a while ..

i think Charlie has answered your question on price and availability ...

on the performance side I have now been using the Commando with the Trispark for a few months now and is just wonderful as it is in use on the triple .... get on kick & ride with confidence .... I know the twins did not suffer as badly as we did with Boyer etc on the triples but a few observations i have made with the change to trispark on the Norton ....

Starts first kick every time (except when i think i'm kicking a triple and go piss weak on the right leg and that sometimes ends up with me being bitten back by the very short kick start


tickover is solid at well below 1000RPM .... not sure exactly as the tacho seems a tad unreliable below 1000 ...

plugs are as toasty colour as you can get now days on unleaded fuel .... way better than the black , fouling problems previously .... (though i have reset the float levels as well so may be a tad unfair as a comparison )...

advance curve is smooth and consistant so performance feels the same no mater how hard you push the bike ....

all in all has made the machine a pleasure to ride with confidence to go where and how far you want to .....

If i could fix the bloody oil leak from the head i would be really happy ....

I will post another one on the oil leak in another subject matter ...

Steve