Welding Cracked Primary Covers

I often see primary covers where the footpeg has bent into it, leaving a small crack that leaks oil. I had one like this welded, and the case distorted so much that I threw it away. Can they be welded and not leak, and look decent? If so, any advice on how this can be accomplished?
I have a tig welder and will try it, if there is a good chance of success. Or am willing to take it to a "pro" welder, if there is a good chance of success. I know another approach is to smear a sealant on the inside of the case. What material is good for this: Urethane caulking, epoxy resin??

Stephen Hill
Victoria, BC

Hi Stephen,

I have recently gone down the sealant path for this exact problem. It was only a small dent to begin with, so with the cover off, I tapped away at the ding from the inside until I had pushed it back into shape. From the outside it's almost invisible, just a small hairline spiderweb. I then washed the area from the inside with acetone, and forced it through the crack using a finger like a plunger. After leaving the acetone to flash off, applied araldite, again forcing it into the cracks with finger pressure. Wipe off all excess. Seems to be working fine so far.

Long term I had been thinking of drilling the ding out, getting it filled with weld by a pro and then using the dremel and elbow grease to finish it off.

The trick is to preheat the piece before welding to help minimize distortion. I had one welded that came out ok. I believe my welder used a hot plate to heat it. If it is done right, you can sand and polish it and you'd never know it's been welded (from the outside anyway).

If all you're concerned about is stopping the leak, I'd try some JB Weld. Or fit a belt drive, haha.

Debby

I've had side covers and sliders welded both to modify and repair ding fractures.
A propane pancake heater is best tool to heat to like 800-900' F then back off while welder heat melts the blem then back on it hot as ya can get it with propane a while more to let settle out the strains and cool slowly. One issue is to use the mostly all Al rods or metal color will stick out like a sore thumb. Otherwise prefect hidden repair is possible. If just tiny cracks leaking - like when Peel's crank nut came off and weged to stall motor between crank end and cover - put a thumb size bulge with fractures to outside, beat it back mostly even with hammer then filed to profile then down the sandpaper grades to 2000 then 3 series of buffer wheel polish for better than new oil tight finish again. Trixie now wears that one.

debby said:

Or fit a belt drive, haha.
Debby

Click to expand...

Around here it would probably be cheaper to fit a belt drive from the charges I've gotten from the welders.

What about the aluminum solder, any one use that? I need to get my peg away from that cover, mine is about 1/16" away and I notice it puts a mark on the cover, but then it's probably been dropped on that peg in the past and is bent.

Dave
69S

Dave write: "I need to get my peg away from that cover, mine is about 1/16" away and I notice it puts a mark on the cover, but then it's probably been dropped on that peg in the past and is bent."

I remove the large nut off the inside of the rider pegs. I hacksaw and grind the end of the peg flush with the footpeg casting. I then tighten the snot out of the peg, and have never had one come undone. This gives me 1/2 an inch of clearance, which means if the bike goes over it won't punch a hole in the covers. I think of it as insurance I hope never to use.

Stephen Hill
Victoria, BC

About the Least prone item to come undone by itself are the peg shafts and caution you if one does break off they break off flush and its a real bugger it the threads are jammed tight to remove by drilling and extractor instead of just pecking it out with a drift till enough to grab and finish. They should be over 1/2" clearance maybe more like an inch to take up tip overs to some degree w/o dinging cases. Part of Norton wisdom to me to help protect them form me.

Put the stalks in a big covered jaw vise and use a wood block and real sledge hammer to set righter, ugh, again and again as needed. Better would be bolt em to to the vise or such. Cold bent like crashes toughen em up while heating softens and may tarnish the chrome.

Unfortunately, someone in the bike's past has drilled out the peg holders. I think it was probably a one piece unit at it's beginning (looking at the 69 parts book), so I can't do away with the nut on the case side. I suppose I could get a jam nut and put on it and cut off the excess. It's not like they are under a lot of stress. There are plenty of vice marks on both of the peg holders and the kick start lever, so I should just re-bend them per hobot and send them out for new chrome this winter.

I've always had the feeling that this bike was raced or abused early in it's life because when I got it at supposedly 4000 miles (72), the pegs were drilled out and when I took off the timing cover the first time I notice it was welded up from the inside in front of the points cover. But the crank trap was pretty clean after 13K miles, so the 4K may have been about right.

I doubt if it's ever been driven in a razorback stream though.

Dave
69S

Dave my 70 S has no peg threads at all. period, nada. My combat sure does and my 75. Go figure. If outer cover is damaged from a spill then maybe drill /cut out damage to incorporate creative belt drive ventings ?

Ugh, do we ever really put up our Norton tools or wallets?
With a nut back there even more reason to muscle it out a safer distance.
But its evidence that the Z plates might be the single toughest item on a Commando if not the Al rods.

I don't know what size rider might prefer the factory stalks but I sure don't having removed Trixie's after the Ohio trailering removed LH peg leaving a threaded slug inside the stalk that will take power tools so put on rear sets and ain't looked back.
I thought I was risking more drop damage but after running 'razaorback riverlet' I'm glad the fold up peg is pretty stiff to fold up.

I might be mascot of bending foot stalks so don't take my brief gips lightly, both bending them and unbending them hurts me. Ozarks are bug city in the sweaty face in summer so you either mostly ignore or go inside. I stuck a stalk in hitch loop of 5 ton trailer inside shed with a pipe over it ,and gave a test tug, to get some bugs in right in the face, swatted em off and gave a good heave ho to get hand full of em all around me, so with understanding what it would take to bend the bugger I gave a sharp body jerk to get stung twice at once on my arms, Ugh some brown wasp I thought, no big deal so stepped away a few yards intending to find em and clear the small nest, to suddenly get stung again with a bigger cloud all around me, what??, ran 40 ft to other end of shed catching my breath, to get swarmed a few seconds later then realized YELLOW JACKETS and took off full throttle 60 yds to home deck and look back to see literally the cartoon wide undulating tornado of stingers following my vapor trails so ducked inside for one last sting of one embedded in my wet hair. They are supposed to make nests in ground so mule rider Never Go Out until after first hard freeze but these had made multi level nest in 5 gal bucket I'd stored a half bag of portland cement.
A cup of gasoline un-lit did em in. I got about a dozen stings on arm which arn't that bad singlely and as past bee keeper was kind of hoping to get some bone joint improvement and maybe even high. UGH just the opposite for a day or more.

Steve, I guess I have to tell you about the day I put an axe in a stump and out came the white faced hornets, unusual in the ground. OH, MAN, was I on the run. Luckily was in my 30's and out ran them from the woods. Other time got into the ground yellow jackets, but they don't bother me for some reason, was covered with them under clothing and all, but jumped into shower and undressed, got stung plenty, but no results for some reason. Wasps get me though and make me swell up and itch plenty.

Then there's the bore bees I play the badmitten racket with, but they don't seem to sting, just hover.

Dave
69S

We are listening to Tom Waits in the background on P.B.S. so everything fell into place. Uncanny.

Stephen Hill said:

I often see primary covers where the footpeg has bent into it, leaving a small crack that leaks oil. I had one like this welded, and the case distorted so much that I threw it away. Can they be welded and not leak, and look decent? If so, any advice on how this can be accomplished?
I have a tig welder and will try it, if there is a good chance of success. Or am willing to take it to a "pro" welder, if there is a good chance of success. I know another approach is to smear a sealant on the inside of the case. What material is good for this: Urethane caulking, epoxy resin??

Stephen Hill
Victoria, BC

Click to expand...

Take it to a pro welder, and ask him to use 4043 filler rod. There is no need whatsoever to pre-heat relatively thin side cases, and anyone who says there is may well simply be doing this to charge more money for the job.

The 4043 filler may be slightly different in colour to the case material, and if so get your welder to put a run of 1050 over the part of the weld which will show, that should match colour pretty closely.

A weld repair like this can be done in less than 20 minutes, but it is a good idea to try and get all the oil out of the weld area, and do the prep work yourself, as these things will take longer than doing the actual weld repair itself.

Dogt we is brothers of the venoms! I will have remember about stumps now too, ugh. If there is room enough to protect case with some wood you can pry the stalks out with a crow bar and not mar the cases. Frame is so thin you can't press mid run on that w/o bowing the poop out of the tubes. Its educational to pry on engine and watch the front tabs twist the tubes, which is partly what helps onset hinged handling.

The only way to be rid of oil in Al pores before welding is to heat the area beyond oil vapor and burning temperatures. Small spots will get heated beyond this of course so a non issue if distortion ain't much. Solvents drive oil deeper into pores. Expect to pay more for a small Al repair as the shop has to crank up their expensive shielding gas same amount as before a larger job. So if ya can bring more than one Al job to em for some economy, which is an oxy-moron motorcycle concept.

Sometimes after the welding there is still a small leak. It is not easy to perfectly weld metal that has been soaked in oil for years. Loctite 290 penetrating green is the solution to very small cracks or pin hole leaks. Just clean the crack really well with acetone and pour a little 290 on. The crack will suck in the 290 which is really watery. Once it has soaked in gently heat around the area with a propane torch. It will stop the leak.

I used this stuff on my primary. It had a very small crack in the footpeg area. You could hardly see it but it leaked. I have rear sets on my bike so I only have a bolt in this hole. I welded the inside of the crack and put a bit of the green loctite on the outside and it doesn't leak. I also didn't have to do any work on the outside.

Take it to a pro welder, and ask him to use 4043 filler rod. There is no need whatsoever to pre-heat relatively thin side cases, and anyone who says there is may well simply be doing this to charge more money for the job.

The 4043 filler may be slightly different in colour to the case material, and if so get your welder to put a run of 1050 over the part of the weld which will show, that should match colour pretty closely.

A weld repair like this can be done in less than 20 minutes, but it is a good idea to try and get all the oil out of the weld area, and do the prep work yourself, as these things will take longer than doing the actual weld repair itself.[/quote]

100% correct.
The only thing I might add is to bolt or clamp the cover to a stiff plate if the weld is more than a half inch long. That will keep it from bowing in the center. No pre-heat.
An experienced welder will only wash the surface and use a brush for a shiny surface. A shallow v- notch will help. Attempting to get the oil out of the pores is an impossible task. It will have to be dealt with as it is being welded.
I would straighten the dent as well as possible and then weld it only on the inside. It will be easier to hide a slight crack on the outside than to hide a weld on the outside.
For a small crack - JB weld or similar is a viable repair. Forget the aluminum solder. It's best left for pop cans at the state fair. Jim

When I weld a casing which has had oil inside, I simply degrease with something like brake cleaner, and then remove the oil with a wire brush as it bubbles to the surface during the welding process. I get the impression that a lot of less than honest welders give customers BS about pre-heat etc etc, so they can charge £100 for a £20 job..................

Carbonfibre said:

When I weld a casing which has had oil inside, I simply degrease with something like brake cleaner, and then remove the oil with a wire brush as it bubbles to the surface during the welding process. I get the impression that a lot of less than honest welders give customers BS about pre-heat etc etc, so they can charge £100 for a £20 job..................

Click to expand...

>>>>>Be VERY careful with using brake cleaner for degreaser when welding. Brake cleaner when burned in an argon atmosphere can be deadly in very small amounts. <<<<<
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm


I'm not sure if it is dishonesty or simply another way they were taught to do it. Jim

Thanks thats useful info about the brake cleaner............Seems a lot of people feel pre-heat is needed when its not, and makes you wonder whether they know how to do the rest of the job properly?

I have found a good preheat, eaven with a propane torch on the area, does a good job of bringing out the impurities such as oils in the area.. It's quick and helps pre clean the area. Otherwise as soon as you start welding problems start. Clean, clean and clean again.