Vintage Motorcycle Business 101

Anyone wanting to make a living selling parts for vintage motorcycles has a problem. Norton is the easiest because AN, RGM, and Norvil all have parts and AN has almost all.

Unfortunately, those three do not have real dealer/distributor accounts. So, when you buy from them and you are outside the UK, the small “dealer” discount you get is eaten away by shipping costs, especially if you buy any large parts. This means that you cannot compete with them and make money unless you charge huge markups. Old Britts and The Bonneville Shop charge(d) 100-300% markups and were/are somehow able to get people to buy – strange because you could buy direct for much less.

Tri-Spark, AMAL, Wassel, and CWC all have true dealer accounts, so it is possible for a US dealer to compete with them. But selling for the recommended retail price is still a losing venture due to shipping, so most double the recommended retail price.

I started selling parts so I could get my parts for less – I don’t need to make money on parts, just cover my costs. That worked well for Tri-Spark, Wassel, AMAL, and CWC, especially when I still sold on eBay. Today, those four are OK, but it is financially stupid that I have $60k of other parts (mostly AN) that no one buys.

Most know that I bought out Old Britts remaining AN stock and I paid well less than the parts would have cost me from AN. I’m selling those parts for the same small markup as the other AN parts. They cost MUCH less than you can get anywhere else. I’ve sold $25.00 worth of their parts in the last 60 days!

Then there’s bike building. Even with my reduced parts costs, I’m doing well to build a Norton for $10,500 and get $13,000 for it. A job at McDonalds in my area would pay at least twice what I get an hour! If you ever wondered why cNw builds were so expensive, that’s why!

So, I don’t recommend it as a business of any type and definitely not as a business to live on!

As the 'owner' of four old British motorbikes, I can tell you it is a very reliable way to burn a lot
of money in a regular and ongoing manner. You have to be somewhat dense to know this and still carry on. And now, due to the state of the world, unloading your burden is not only difficult but it will not recover much of what you laid out.
In other words, Greg is looking at the problem from one angle and the rest of us from another but the results are the same.

But ordering bits and bobs from UK into NA for a single bike makes shipping much higher per $ spent surely? Buying in larger numbers, shipping would/should not scale linearly?

Tornado said:

But ordering bits and bobs from UK into NA for a single bike makes shipping much higher per $ spent surely? Buying in larger numbers, shipping would/should not scale linearly?

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Very true if all things are small. That's why my orders have been large. However, add anything large to your order, such as a seat, and the shipping is charged at several times the actual weight. Also, unfortunately AN uses DHL and DHL has started stealing from the receiver - fake import fees and their charge to handle them. My last AN order had $62 of DHL theft attached (nothing to do with AN). Shipping and DHL theft on my last order added 9% and the credit add-on to the exchange rate added 4%. A forum member buying s few small AN items from me would still save a little and get things faster. I use USPS small, medium, or large flat-rate boxes and add nothing to the shipping cost. So, 10 items that fit in a small flat rate box have the same shipping a one item that fits.

DHL Theft:
There are no duties importing motorcycle parts from the UK to the US.

When importing over $2500, DHS can charge a small fee for opening and inspecting the box, but only if they do. DHL regularly says they paid the fee for you and wants that plus $17 for doing it. I've never received a package that was opened.

On my last order, DHL sent the notice of $62 "duties". When I called to dispute, they insisted that the fee was for importing over $800. There is a law that says if you bring over $800 with you back to the US, and it is something that duties are normally charged for, that there is a small inspection fee. This does not apply to shipping. That's what I was charged for on my last order plus the $17 DHL charges for handling it.

DHL threatens to send the shipment back if you don't pay. In reality, they do not return the shipment but after a wait will declare it abandoned and auction it off.

What does it mean:
I used to order $2000-$4000 each time. Then when they started the $2500 nonsense I started limiting to under $2500. Now I would need to limit to under $800. $800 is too small an order to save significantly on shipping.

I have no need to make a living selling parts, but I need to at least cover the costs including taxes and fees. My IT business brings me more money in a month than I've made in the last 3 years on motorcycle parts and builds!

I hate DHL. Anything i've ever got by them gets slapped with "brokerage" fees which for unexplained reasons scale with declared value of items.

A lot of grief would be solved if AN would just allow us to have option to ship via Royal Mail. Dramatically lower overall costs from other vendors I've dealt with to Canada, whither motorcycle related or otherwise.

Tornado said:

I hate DHL. Anything i've ever got by them gets slapped with "brokerage" fees which for unexplained reasons scale with declared value of items.

A lot of grief would be solved if AN would just allow us to have option to ship via Royal Mail. Dramatically lower overall costs from other vendors I've dealt with to Canada, whither motorcycle related or otherwise.

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I agree, or they could ship with Parcel Force. That's who Wassel uses. Goes strictly by weight - no upcharge for large items so when orders include seats, exhaust pipes, mufflers, etc. the price is much less than DHL. If all small stuff, then the price is a little higher. If I place an order Sunday night (so it's there Monday morning), it will arrive Wednesday midday 100% of the time (Wassel always ships immediately but of course, they have lots less orders than AN).

I've placed $5000 orders with Wassel and have never had to pay a penny of duties, brokerage, or theft to Parcel Force.

marshg246 said:

Anyone wanting to make a living selling parts for vintage motorcycles has a problem.

...Old Britts ... charge(d) 100-300% markups and were/are somehow able to get people to buy...

Then there’s bike building. Even with my reduced parts costs, I’m doing well to build a Norton for $10,500 and get $13,000 for it. A job at McDonalds in my area would pay at least twice what I get an hour! If you ever wondered why cNw builds were so expensive, that’s why!

So, I don’t recommend it as a business of any type and definitely not as a business to live on!

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The first sentence is relative to many factors.

Old Britts' prices to me were nowhere NEAR 100% markup from a few other sources, and always gave me invaluable help and support. Glad to hear you got their stock, but surely you realize they sold off the bulk of the fast-moving stuff as their business wound down?

Bike building was indeed a minimum wage endeavor, over time; but I supplemented it with other services and custom building. Rather than buying out other businesses' stock, I looked for lot purchases of bikes, frames and engines and swooped in before others could snap them up. I also was able to quickly make deposits on "great deal" bikes, fix them up, and "flip" them.

CNW is somewhat of an outlier, BUT there is no denying their build quality (I will put NY City Norton in that category as well). It is readily apparent that they have their niche market pretty well secured.

I DO actually recommend classic bike building and restoration as a business for someone who understands that it is not as much a get-rich-quick endeavor, as it is an "I love what I do" gig.

I see a giant open window for an enterprising BritBike enthusiast with time on his hands, to set up a BritBike parcel shipping service from the UK to the US & Canada (and worldwide, I suppose)...

grandpaul said:

The first sentence is relative to many factors.

Old Britts' prices to me were nowhere NEAR 100% markup from a few other sources, and always gave me invaluable help and support. Glad to hear you got their stock, but surely you realize they sold off the bulk of the fast-moving stuff as their business wound down?

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I never said they were out of line with others - I said their markup was high and I also said it needed to be since that's how they made their living. In fact, they sold AMAL at about 100% markup but The Bonneville Shop sells Amal at about 131% markup. They sold the Tri-Spark Tri-0005B at about 122% markup where The Bonneville Shop sells it for about 177%. On my web site, I list the Tri-0005B at 60% markup but to forum and club members, it's under 20% and I pay the shipping out of that. Exchange and shipping rates make exact percentages impossible.

They sold AN for about twice what I do. It was recently hinted that their AN discount was higher than mine - if so, their markup was well more than 120%.

I average 2 calls/emails for help every day. The vast majority of the people who call for help never have bought anything and many will never. I am happy to help. Old Britts had tech info on their site that all used, including me. I have free tech info on my site as well. I have no advertising banners or any 3-party advertising of any kind on my site even though it would make me more money than parts sales!

Yes, I realize that when shutting down they brought their prices down to my level and we bought things from them - I even bought some $26 handlebars for $50 from them as a thank you. Around 20% of what I bought was in the really old AN packaging and about 40% in the old packaging. The rest was much more recently bought by them. Yes, there are parts unlikely to be sold. On the other hand, a full set of rockers direct from AN will cost you about $575 + shipping, right now, that same set from me, delivered in the US will cost $300 because I got them from Old Britts at a discount - if I had a set from AN direct, my cost would be between $600 and $650 depending on exchange rate and shipping.

I've bought out 3 people who were in dire need of selling, one changing directions, and I bought out Old Britts and you. No more - all have been trying to help them and the community but have just ended up wasting my time and money.

marshg246 said:

I've bought out 3 people who were in dire need of selling, one changing directions, and I bought out Old Britts and you. No more - all have been trying to help them and the community but have just ended up wasting my time and money.

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Was that my AN stuff in original packets? Sure wasn't much there that I recall. I'm foggy these days.

This economy is kicking EVERYONE'S (but the very rich) butts.

It will be interesting to see if the current market will round out or not. I guess next three years will tell. You sell now you will lose money. You sell later you may lose money or lose more money but only time will tell.

Onder said:

It will be interesting to see if the current market will round out or not. I guess next three years will tell. You sell now you will lose money. You sell later you may lose money or lose more money but only time will tell.

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It's certainly not looking good. Every time I look at my investments, I get more concerned about the future.

grandpaul said:

Was that my AN stuff in original packets? Sure wasn't much there that I recall. I'm foggy these days.

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A little, there was more Triumph.

109 distinct parts, 253 individual parts. Still have 55 distinct parts, 84 individual parts. Still in the hole $109.13 after 38 months.

marshg246 said:

A little, there was more Triumph.

109 distinct parts, 253 individual parts. Still have 55 distinct parts, 84 individual parts. Still in the hole $109.13 after 38 months.

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I don't even remember if I fixed a price, or if it was a "make offer" deal...

grandpaul said:

I don't even remember if I fixed a price, or if it was a "make offer" deal...

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I don't either but it cost me $1200 delivered. Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining, just explaining why this was another bad financial decision on my part.

The price was reasonable but somewhat like Old Britts, many of the parts will never sell or be used in my builds. Also, as with any inventory, the spreadsheet you sent had errors. So, I had the figure the cost of each inventoriable item individually which took a long time to enter into my system.

For instance items unlikely to sell:
1 82-2725 NUT,1/2X20 Triumph Center Stand Nut @ $1.44 cost to me (an entire kit with spring costs me $10)
1 NMT2180A SPROCKET,ENGINE,17T Norton Pre-Commando Engine Sprocket, 17T, T2180A @ $32.77 cost to me - good price, Baxter wants $50.00

MarshG- Somehow, I never knew you existed! I will now have another parts resource. Thank you for posting this.

I don't know how you can make a living restoring and selling old bikes. Last one I did, a basic twin cylinder from the 70s, I put 600 hours into a good freshen up but not a concours resto. No new paint work and chrome but a thorough mechanical seeing to and clean up. I could probably sell the bike for $8,000. That is about $13 an hour, not counting the value of the bike before I started or the several thousand dollars of parts I used. So more like about $6.50 an hour. Minimum wage around here is $22 an hour. Motorcycle dealers charge $120 an hour labour. I can get $85 an hour all day long just doing hourly paid bike repair work in my back shed.
And international shipping has gone ballistic in the past few years. I used to buy a lot of parts from USA dealers and ship to Australia, then shipping went through the roof and made it not worthwhile. Ditto the UK in more recent times. Seems like as e-commerce has taken off and international shipping become far more common, it has skyrocketed in price rather than going down as you would expect in a mass market. Somebody somewhere is making a fortune out of it, but it must be cutting down sales tremendously. I now buy and import only absolute essentials. The rest I make or make do without. I just hate having my trousers pulled down.

Maybe shippers were making money on volume and now they have less volume but don't care because it might be cheaper to move less and charge more and if they can do that they will, indeed, they must.
Worldwide change is upon us, first with the virus, then the war in Ukraine, include the massive increase in debt in the USA and
the inflation it brings.
If you are young, this is the time to look ahead and see if you can correctly read the tea leaves to plan your move. If you are old, well, sit back and await the hand Fate will deal you.

HopperXL said:

I don't know how you can make a living restoring and selling old bikes. Last one I did, a basic twin cylinder from the 70s, I put 600 hours into a good freshen up but not a concours resto. No new paint work and chrome but a thorough mechanical seeing to and clean up. I could probably sell the bike for $8,000. That is about $13 an hour, not counting the value of the bike before I started or the several thousand dollars of parts I used. So more like about $6.50 an hour. Minimum wage around here is $22 an hour. Motorcycle dealers charge $120 an hour labour. I can get $85 an hour all day long just doing hourly paid bike repair work in my back shed.
And international shipping has gone ballistic in the past few years. I used to buy a lot of parts from USA dealers and ship to Australia, then shipping went through the roof and made it not worthwhile. Ditto the UK in more recent times. Seems like as e-commerce has taken off and international shipping become far more common, it has skyrocketed in price rather than going down as you would expect in a mass market. Somebody somewhere is making a fortune out of it, but it must be cutting down sales tremendously. I now buy and import only absolute essentials. The rest I make or make do without. I just hate having my trousers pulled down.

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Easy to make a living if you can get the $30k-$45k cNw used to charge. I figure 500 hours for a full rebuild and $11k for costs. $38 to $68/hour. Not much of a living but many make less. I certainly don't do it to make a living - as I'm making more like $5/hour and have made as little as $1/hour. That's the point of the last part of my original post in this thread.

I heard an adage if you're making money restoring bikes you are doing it wrong