VERY TALL 1st gear

I think standard is 21 teeeth on 850s(?) and 20, even 19 get regular mentions.

The US and Canadian Mk3s had a 20T front sprocket as standard and the rest had 22T according to the Mk3 manual.
According to the 850 Mk1 riders manual the gearbox sprocket was 21T.
According to the Mk1A and Mk2 riders manual it was 22T (21T optional),
 
I found that with the Commando motor, the gearing is stupid. With most motorcycles, when you lower the gearing you get much faster acceleration. I use extremely high gearing with close ratio gears.
 
I don't think the gearing is stupid.

The gearing is great for my use and I think the factory got it right. In the city, maximum is third gear while fourth gear is for higher speeds like highway.
70mph is just over 4000 rpm in fourth which means there are plenty of revs left to pass cars!
Dennis
 
I found that with the Commando motor, the gearing is stupid. With most motorcycles, when you lower the gearing you get much faster acceleration. I use extremely high gearing with close ratio gears.
Your talking racing. And in racing you gear for the track. As a general rule CR gears are not optimal for very tight circuit and street circuits such as we have in NZ . Short sprint races favour the bike that's first into the first corner. CR gears don't help with that. Circumstances matter.
 
Your talking racing. And in racing you gear for the track. As a general rule CR gears are not optimal for very tight circuit and street circuits such as we have in NZ . Short sprint races favour the bike that's first into the first corner. CR gears don't help with that. Circumstances matter.
I am an idiot. When I bought the 6 speed TTI gearbox, it was because of the very high Manx Norton first gear in the close ratio cluster. I was always getting slow starts. In my shed there are about 3 other gear clusters from various Nortons, and the first gear from anyone of them could be used with the Manx Norton cluster. John Maher raced a Manx, and when he visited me I told him about this problem - he said he has 3 first gears for his Manx, and changes them to suit different circuits. I have only raced the Seeley 850 on smaller circuits. At Winton and Mount Gambier, once the bike is moving, I never go back to first gear anyway. The larger gap between a Commando first gear and the Manx second gear would not even be noticed - just rev it higher in first gear. The slowest corner on Winton is a tight hairpin - I go around it in second gear at about 50MPH with the rear wheel losing traction -it is a bit bumpy.
 
I have ridden my Seeley 850 with normal ratio Commando gears - it was absolutely hopeless. The Manx cluster cost $700 AUD. I do not spend money unless there would be real benefit. It is far superior with close ratios. When you race with wide ratio gears, you lose more revs on the heavy crankshaft on every up-change, so poor throttle response becomes a bigger problem. With close ratio gears the crankshaft inertia actually helps when you race-change. I simply ease the throttle enough to unload the gears, then stand on the lever at full throttle. A lot of guys do not seem to know how to do that - all you should hear is a change of note - NO PAUSE !
 
I have ridden my Seeley 850 with normal ratio Commando gears - it was absolutely hopeless. The Manx cluster cost $700 AUD. I do not spend money unless there would be real benefit. It is far superior with close ratios. When you race with wide ratio gears, you lose more revs on the heavy crankshaft on every up-change, so poor throttle response becomes a bigger problem. With close ratio gears the crankshaft inertia actually helps when you race-change. I simply ease the throttle enough to unload the gears, then stand on the lever at full throttle. A lot of guys do not seem to know how to do that - all you should hear is a change of note - NO PAUSE !
what type of front brake on that bike?
 
what type of front brake on that bike?
The front brake is a Honda CB750 hub, with two Suzuki steel discs. Two Lockheed AP calipers with master cylinder intended for one caliper, The linings are of the old asbestos type. I have tried racing linings and could not get them to work well enough. I operate the brake with only one finger -that might scare some people, but it is necessary. With the Seeley frame and that brake, I can fly into any corner behind other riders and never get into trouble. With my first race bike, doing that used to give me nightmares. With drum brakes, the bike must be vertical when savage brakes are used - they are too unreliable when they heat-up.
 
I have ridden my Seeley 850 with normal ratio Commando gears - it was absolutely hopeless. The Manx cluster cost $700 AUD. I do not spend money unless there would be real benefit. It is far superior with close ratios. When you race with wide ratio gears, you lose more revs on the heavy crankshaft on every up-change, so poor throttle response becomes a bigger problem. With close ratio gears the crankshaft inertia actually helps when you race-change. I simply ease the throttle enough to unload the gears, then stand on the lever at full throttle. A lot of guys do not seem to know how to do that - all you should hear is a change of note - NO PAUSE !
All them gears just going to waste sitting in your shed.
 
I am an idiot. When I bought the 6 speed TTI gearbox, it was because of the very high Manx Norton first gear in the close ratio cluster. I was always getting slow starts. In my shed there are about 3 other gear clusters from various Nortons, and the first gear from anyone of them could be used with the Manx Norton cluster. John Maher raced a Manx, and when he visited me I told him about this problem - he said he has 3 first gears for his Manx, and changes them to suit different circuits. I have only raced the Seeley 850 on smaller circuits. At Winton and Mount Gambier, once the bike is moving, I never go back to first gear anyway. The larger gap between a Commando first gear and the Manx second gear would not even be noticed - just rev it higher in first gear. The slowest corner on Winton is a tight hairpin - I go around it in second gear at about 50MPH with the rear wheel losing traction -it is a bit bumpy.
My 500 Dominator was raced under NZ Classic racing pre 1963 Clubmans rules most of the time. This meant it was limited to 4 gears but you could change internal ratios to suit. From memory the most flexible box was the Daytona first gear pair, the later 850 Commando second gear pair and the Manx CR third gear pair. I also had a cotton reel type Triumph rear hub which allowed for the quick change of the rear sprocket. Do your sums right and match to the torque curve from the dyno and you could get a reasonable match for most circuits by changing only the rear sprocket. The only NZ Clubmans bike that could beat it was a Peter Lodge ES2. The clubmans version of the ES2 that won this year's Manx. So I was happy enough with that.
 
Last edited:
The front brake is a Honda CB750 hub, with two Suzuki steel discs. Two Lockheed AP calipers with master cylinder intended for one caliper, The linings are of the old asbestos type. I have tried racing linings and could not get them to work well enough. I operate the brake with only one finger -that might scare some people, but it is necessary. With the Seeley frame and that brake, I can fly into any corner behind other riders and never get into trouble. With my first race bike, doing that used to give me nightmares. With drum brakes, the bike must be vertical when savage brakes are used - they are too unreliable when they heat-up.
Race gas? Alcohol?
 
Back
Top