Many of the issues that are turning up are with peripherals, the design of the V4 seems sound, as you expect from the bloke that designed the 675 Triumph. The issues seem to be, as I said, with cutting corners. I dont agree that they have zero, the V4 and the 650s will I think be very important for them. From what I have read its not totally re engineering, its getting right the things that were rushed and skimped on.We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I’m not blaming TVS, on the contrary really, I feel sorry for them as I think they got truly shafted (AKA Garnered). They bought a company with 3 ‘ready to go’ motorcyle platforms, yet here they are, many months into their ownership and they have zero. In fact the only ‘progress’ seems to be them finding even more problems!
So, they’re gonna have to start again with the designs it seems. Therefore, if they’re starting with new designs, it really seems that all they bought was a name with sketchy TM provenance. Oh, and a big headache caused by the old companies designs of which they had not part in!
I sincerely hope they proceed and succeed, there’s a lot of value (PR etc) in a V4 type flagship bike. And the 650s were very well received by public opinion, and should sell well.
But if their press releases are true, and they’re having to virtually re engineer the entire bikes (V4 and 650s) then there’s no way they’ll be on sale this year…
Not sure what you mean by 'claimed to have designed the bikes in house' ?I wonder whether someone who claimed to have designed the bikes in house still has a job?
Sorry, who ?Nothing will be decided until Sir Ralphy is in the seat, and that is Jan 2023!!
We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I’m not blaming TVS, on the contrary really, I feel sorry for them as I think they got truly shafted (AKA Garnered). They bought a company with 3 ‘ready to go’ motorcyle platforms, yet here they are, many months into their ownership and they have zero. In fact the only ‘progress’ seems to be them finding even more problems!
So, they’re gonna have to start again with the designs it seems. Therefore, if they’re starting with new designs, it really seems that all they bought was a name with sketchy TM provenance. Oh, and a big headache caused by the old companies designs of which they had not part in!
I sincerely hope they proceed and succeed, there’s a lot of value (PR etc) in a V4 type flagship bike. And the 650s were very well received by public opinion, and should sell well.
But if their press releases are true, and they’re having to virtually re engineer the entire bikes (V4 and 650s) then there’s no way they’ll be on sale this year…
They have said that they are unable to repair the current V4s. That indicates major design / engineering flaws, certainly not peripherals.Many of the issues that are turning up are with peripherals, the design of the V4 seems sound, as you expect from the bloke that designed the 675 Triumph. The issues seem to be, as I said, with cutting corners. I dont agree that they have zero, the V4 and the 650s will I think be very important for them. From what I have read its not totally re engineering, its getting right the things that were rushed and skimped on.
They wouldn't have put the investment in this that they have with a new factory for example if they don't have a viable plan and I see the V4 as a major part of that.
Couple of problems with that idea Clive, firstly is that Rotaries are notoriously difficult to run ‘clean’ as they expel unburnt fuel and oil out of the exhaust. So getting them through modern emissions would be a challenge me thinks.What about something that stands apart from the herd like a modern rotary?
I'm picking up the vibe that you don't think its one of my best ideas?Couple of problems with that idea Clive, firstly is that Rotaries are notoriously difficult to run ‘clean’ as they expel unburnt fuel and oil out of the exhaust. So getting them through modern emissions would be a challenge me thinks.
Secondly, I don’t think anyone on Norton’s payroll has any Rotary experience at all. Brain Crighton was ‘the man’ with these bikes, but his employ under Garner, very early on, was very short lived. Garner was going to make a super sports Rotary, there was even an option to ‘express interest’ early on, which I did. But, no Brian = no Rotaries…!
I'm picking up the vibe that you don't think its one of my best ideas?
However the electric supercharger is looking promising - will try it on the zxr400 first.....
The V4 'wasn't to be' ? They are currently re engineering it for release.I do think the Norton name deserves a flagship model.... A big shame the V4 wasn't to be, nor the (800cc?) Rotary mooted earlier. Let's hope TVS do have something similar up their sleeve...
But they'll still need the 'bread and butter' models to keep the fires burning.... Tannoy loudspeakers are a good example, perhaps?
Stuart Garner showed me the rotary engine and I must admit it did look the business but he said if it didn't deliver on the dyno it would be shelved.Couple of problems with that idea Clive, firstly is that Rotaries are notoriously difficult to run ‘clean’ as they expel unburnt fuel and oil out of the exhaust. So getting them through modern emissions would be a challenge me thinks.
Secondly, I don’t think anyone on Norton’s payroll has any Rotary experience at all. Brain Crighton was ‘the man’ with these bikes, but his employ under Garner, very early on, was very short lived. Garner was going to make a super sports Rotary, there was even an option to ‘express interest’ early on, which I did. But, no Brian = no Rotaries…!
Agreed, but a shame it fell so heavily at the first hurdle, no? That must affect public preconception and buyer confidence, perhaps?The V4 'wasn't to be' ? They are currently re engineering it for release.
Not if TVS get it ‘right’. If they get it right first time, they’ll be able to benefit from the ‘completely re engineered‘ headlines and I think the market will be strong personally.Agreed, but a shame it fell so heavily at the first hurdle, no? That must affect public preconception and buyer confidence, perhaps?
Kinda my point. They’re a ‘black art’ unlike any other internal combustion engine. And without someone like Crighton, it won’t deliver, and no one will know how to make it deliver …he said if it didn't deliver on the dyno it would be shelved.
Here's hoping....... As long as they don't farm out 'aesthetics' to KTM..Not if TVS get it ‘right’. If they get it right first time, they’ll be able to benefit from the ‘completely re engineered‘ headlines and I think the market will be strong personally.
Of course it could deliver, that is why it got banned from racing.Stuart Garner showed me the rotary engine and I must admit it did look the business but he said if it didn't deliver on the dyno it would be shelved.
That was many years before Garner was involved. He put together a completely new engine.Of course it could deliver, that is why it got banned from racing.
Is the Jubilee name available?they can't use Ranger - Ford have objected