Trouble getting into 1st gear

Since I got the Norton running my main issue has been getting into 1st gear. The rest of the gears are smooth but 1st I have to pull up with my hand or push it into 2nd and back to 1st. I have taken the outer gearbox cover off and my noobie eyes do not see anything immediately out of whack. the mechanism that the pawl goes into moves up and down fine and the pawl looks ok. Any thoughts on this??

Here are a few pics in case the trained eye can see anything!

Hi,
Nothing in the photos jumps out as looking bad. However, I'd recommend using a nice clean 90W gear oil for lube instead of maple syrup (just kidding). Are you experiecing a lot of clutch drag, does it slip into first gear easier if the engine is not running. If that's the case a simple clutch adjustment, or a little more involved clutch plate cleaning may be in order. When you eventually convert to primary belt drive and run a proper dry clutch you won't be bothered by clutch drag ever again.

GB

Always worth keeping in mind primary drive over tension does strange things to shifting. I always first suspect the layshaft 1st gear bush on any annoyance in shifting. Check the working surfaces of the gear dogs but I think that mostly messes with 2 and 3. Next thing I always suspect is the pawl spring but dread touching that delicate mouse trap setting if the other gears select fine.

I have similar thing going on with my gearbox.
When cold on leaving home it shifts fine into first but once warmed up and I've put it in neutral when I go for 1st it often won't engage.
No noise or grab just a slight click but no nice light chunk sound.

Although I will be going into the box in the winter for the time being I've found that with the clutch hand lever in if I put toe up pressure on the change lever and slowly let out hand lever until it chunks into 1st gear. Need to keep revs up a little to avoid stall.

A variant that also works is to pull the clutch lever full back then let it out about an inch then toe up on change lever gives me a chunk into gear but doesn't kill engine. Also takes a little practice to not stall engine or clank the box too hard.

Thanks for the replies so quickly. Being I could not see anything significantly wrong I cleaned everything up, cut some new gaskets and attempted to put the outer gearbox back on. Needless to say, the manual helps but it took a couple of times to figure everything out from old english and not very detailed drawings. Once I got the gearbox back on and it would shift through the gears I filled up the tranny with 80W-90 Lucas gear oil (all I had on hand) and it seem to take longer than the first time I filled it up. I had originally drained the box before I attempted to get the bike rolling and had something fluid the consistency of snot and about that color drain out. After about 20 minutes of filling up and waiting for it to settle I got to thinking I may not have given the fluid time to settle and did not put enough in it the first time. The fluid that came out tonight (aka maple syrup) seemed a lot less than what I put in later, :shock: .

After doing checks on EVERYTHING and putting away my tools, I got a shower (you can cut the humidity with a knife tonight) and put on some riding clothes for a quick shakedown. First time out of the gate I could get into 1st with no problem! made a quick trip to get some corn whiskey, since the non ethanol station is closed, because I was on my reserved and did not want to be stranded after midnight in town. Rode around for about 20 minutes and she did fine! So nice to be able to sit at a stoplight and not have to hold the clutch to stay in first while waiting. I did notice a couple of times I heard a clunk from the tranny when stopped and was in neutral, will be doing a more thorough and proper shakedown tomorrow in the daylight.

I did play with the clutch tension and made sure I had enough slack at the handle to make sure the clutches were fully engaged. I replaced them when I was going through the bike with Barnett clutches and cleaned the heck out of the plates then put a fine coat of ATF before assembly. I checked the tension on the primary chain and it felt good, will check to make sure I did not overfill (or under fill) the primary case tomorrow morning.

I really wanted to get into the guts of the transmission to see if I had any Portuguese hanging around in there but will be attempting that at a later date when I can mainly afford it!

Thanks again!! :mrgreen:

Hurray just the good ending tale I needed to settle down and sleep before an early start riding adventure with two other Cod'rs.
I use ATF in tranny often, as your's liked the newer-thinner oil, try ATF sometime. Can't hurt a thing, we been through that for couple decades. Primary too. I've got the standard lube in my factory Trixie though just because that's the way they came and I want to compare it with my special. U use AFT in Trixie primary as can't tell its there but for lack of seeing clutch plates as often.
Of course as you fly down the way, don't let the thought slip into back of mind the decaying layshaft bearing is just freer with more functional lube. Ride and Wrench, ride and wrench, but hope its only when in the mood to want to...
hehe got last task done on Trixie, two new mirrors, now that a wrenching and wiping evening I can look forward too : )

"I replaced them when I was going through the bike with Barnett clutches and cleaned the heck out of the plates then put a fine coat of ATF before assembly."

Did I understand this right? You smeared oil onto the plates?
They should be dry.

Flo said:

Did I understand this right? You smeared oil onto the plates?
They should be dry.

Click to expand...

But how long will clutch plates stay dry in a primary case after start up when there's 200cc of ATF being thrown around inside it ?

30 seconds?...1 minute?

Years ago on other lists I heard the reactions to ATF in primary and on clutch plates so I called Barnett Clutch and they told me their plates should be "soaked in ATF then wiped off not to drip then installed to avoid chattering initial use bedding in." ATF is made to work with friction bands in tranny, regular gear lube is not. Do the logic and get back with me on your own conclusions. I try to avoid must 1st gear use as seeing to well how poorly the the bushes get lubed when spinning and 1st has thinnest bush to preserve. Sleeve bushes same way but sitting above oil level get even less oiled running, so I try to avoid all gears below 4th, short of lugging and now charging enough to stay ahead of bright beam.

Blimey!
I have tried ATF in my Primary a couple of times. Both times the clutch started slipping/dragging quite quickly.
I only put it in because it is "recomended" by others.
At the moment, I am using Rock 10-40 & it seems to outlast all other oils I have tried.
As for not getting into first, if the clutch is not dragging, I would guess the pawl spring.

OK, so got up this morning and took a ride and everything seemed fine. I came home and checked the primary fluid and it was about 1/2 oz under. Was reading in my shop manual about adjusting the clutch so I opened the primary hole for the clutch and could not get the nut to move. Since I had put new oil in the primary when I got it running a few months ago I noticed it was black so I thunk, what the heck and pulled the primary cover off to try and adjust the clutch. I ended up pulling the clutch apart and checked the plates and disc and they looked good, no scalding or rough spots, good even clean surfaces. I got the nut on the adjusted loose and put the clutch back together. Fiddled with the settings for a little while by the book and put everything else back together and topped off with gear oil (again Lucas 80W-90). Started the bike and put her in gear, adjusted the cable at the grip while in gear and then took off for a ride.



WOW!!!! Amazing difference, good solid clunk on first and 2nd, awesome power response and I can feel the torque. I have pulled the front wheel up before accidentally but this is great. The bike seems to be settling in better now and running smooth. When I got home I adjusted the carbs to idle around 1000, has been running around 14-1500 and I just don't like running that high at a stop.

Now to take a break and will probably be in the garage later tonight cleaning the bike and readying it for the next maintenance starting with the chain and rear wheel, need to do the swing arm oil too!!

BTW, in case you cannot find a shop manual I pulled mine from: http://rocbo.net/technique/norton_workshop/index.html

From what I can tell it is the same one you can buy, I just printed it off and put it in a binder then when it gets too greasy I can print another.

Happy trails!!

warpedscout said:

BTW, in case you cannot find a shop manual I pulled mine from: http://rocbo.net/technique/norton_workshop/index.html

Click to expand...

The manual link can also be found in the tech. sticky: technical-information-section-how-post-photos-t2357.html
-along with lots of other useful links :wink: