Titanium?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
18,978
Country flag
Not interested in it for engine internals but externals like axles and iso mount bolts.
Side and center stands, handle bars, crash bars, rear loop struts. Any of that stuff available fairly cheap and easy to work up? Would it fail in some of these applications? I figure could be worth 5-6 lb less for whiplash response and picking up. Would it make a battery with the other metals and corrode around it?
Ti 3 rate progressive fork springs might tempt a bunch of us eh.
Of course exhaust systems are common if ya can stand to see that much Ti.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium
 
There are several sites selling titanium fasteners. I suspect a majority are going to be metric and they will all be expensive. There are many more weight savings to be had on the Norton, fasteners are probably the most expensive with the least return.
 
On the corrosion question, titanium will make a lot of the common metals used on your bike corrode faster if in contact.

http://www.thelenchannel.com/1galv.php

If you take two metals in the table, the further apart they are the higher the corrosion rate. The metal higher up the table (negative) corrodes.
Check out titanium with aluminium or even worse magnesium.

Whether its a real problem for your kind of usage, who knows. You need water to complete the corrosion cell.
If you're worried use non conductive coatings, anodise all the aluminium and use organic coatings or paint on everything else.
 
How interesting, I was just welding up some titanium baskets for the electroplating industry and stopped for a cup of tea and to log on.

I think the best way to make a bike handle better by weight saving is to drill and countersink the bolts and drill the spindles.
Take of every is thing not needed and don't eat a massive breakfast before going for a ride. the last is the only one I have tried.

Perhaps it would be best if I just got someone slimmer to ride my Norton for me!

Mk3 Commando
DBD34/Featherbed NORBSA.
G12 Matchless
6T TRIBSA Scrambler
Rocket Gold Star replica
Brockhouse Corgi
Italjet pack 2
Honda TL125
Suzuki DR350s
32cc Cyclemaster.
 
I'm so familiar with this but for a different reason.The building I work at has replaced alot of plumbing due to fittings failing.The term is called electrolysis.Wiki states
"When two dissimilar metals are placed in an electrically conductive solution (even tap water is conductive), they will form a battery and generate a voltage by electrolysis. When the two metals are in contact with each other the current from one metal to the other will cause a movement of ions from one to the other, dissolving one metal and depositing it on the other."
 
The galvanic corrosion issue frequently gets blown out of proportion in forums. All the motogp bikes have massive amounts of titanium, and they don't seem to suffer much problem with it. Galvanic corrosion requires the presence of an electrolyte between the two metals, so it isn't much of a problem in dry environments. It can be a real pain in salt water environments.

I've picked up a pretty good selection of Ti bolts, and some Ti nuts, in non-metric sizes on ebay, and at good prices. I used to be able to find them at local Socal surplus outlets, but that dried up some years ago. Most of the aerospace companies that used to dump their surplus fasteners on the market have quit because of concerns over liability. I've seen barrels of brand new surplus NAS Ti bolts at scrap metal yards, but they wouldn't sell them except to companies that melt them down.

I picked up a fair supply of 6AL-4V Ti bars for axles and spacers, and some tubing and plate some years ago from a scrap yard in Texas that handled scrap from the oil industry. I don't know if that sort of stuff is still available.

You do need to be careful of the alloy. You can find a lot of Ti nuts and bolts made out of plain, unalloyed Ti that are used in the food and chemical industries, and for marine applications. They are not strong enough for the highly stressed applications, but great for things like fender and body mounting. For things like axles and stressed chassis fasteners, you need something like 6AL-4V, the alloy most commonly used for high strength fasteners. Most of the Ti fasteners (non-metric) on ebay are surplus NAS parts, and are high strength.

For exhaust systems, the usual choice for Ti is a lower strength, but more malleable, alloy, frequently just pure Ti. Much easier to form, and less likely to develop cracks.

I confess to using Ti wherever I can on the race bikes for lightness, but in all honesty, I think I mostly do it just for fun. Any weight saving is good on a race bike, but in most cases, I don't think it has a significant contribution to winning. You can do almost as well by carefully drilling and trimming steel fasteners. The one place you will notice it is in reducing unsprung weight. I use mag wheels with Ti axles and fasteners to reduce the unsprung weight, and the difference in suspension performance is definitely noticeable on the track.

I replaced almost all the steel fasteners on my Commando-engined featherbed AHRMA racer with Ti or aluminum, trying to get the dry weight below 300 lbs, and finally managed it. I don't think it will ever win or lose a race because of the difference. It was just a challenge that I enjoyed. The real limitation to getting it much lighter now is the heavy production frame. A nice replica Manx frame would save a lot of weight, but would also lighten my wallet way too much.

Ken
 
Appreciate the scope of feedback. In Peel case mainly want Ti axles and iso bolts. Ken I'm in the money no object market for front Ti Combat axle.

Rick, I'm chemistry trained on electromotive series but 'rusty' so needed the review. I'll avoid Ti fasteners as costly and corrosion prong long term. Life itself runs on currents of corrosion/oxidation-reduction-electrolysis/acid-base-salt reactions unless to dry to conduct.

Rocker1, to be blunt I'm scratching at straws to whip the tires off like of SR1000 or Aprilla V4's and 1000 hp 4wd Pike Peak cars up to how ever fast Peels tires can take. Handling Hi Power in very wild states is so solved in Peels case, just don't know how solved w/o 2+x's power. Last major item Norris D+ cam by Jim Schimdt is on the way to Ken. I'm not teasing, if I ain't already lost full traction before entry then not really maxing out. I can tell ya one thing about this level handling, any side loads on suspension over the forward thrust = instant crash out of control. Those side loads can be from wind or pilot twitch or chassis-tire-fork rebound or all at once. Alas not possible to go around like Peel if front tire is needed to apply control. Conflict of interest-tires, load the front unloads the rear, load the rear unloads the front. Bikes don't travel a line but sine waves.
Both tires can't follow same line at once. Peel can take more twist up to dampen this and then just leap right past into pure unicyle sideways. If you don't feel like a hill climber drag racer constantly slammed straight back into tire patch All the way around and out, then ya don't know what Ya missing out on with linked Isolastics. Mass in Peel's case mostly affects inline acceleration-braking not the grip in leaned over far turns. Witness some racers giving rides, mainly just slower to flip sides but once flipped hooks up power out of there.

Titanium?
 
lcrken said:
The galvanic corrosion issue frequently gets blown out of proportion in forums. All the motogp bikes have massive amounts of titanium, and they don't seem to suffer much problem with it.

Cuz those bikes get their parts replaced so frequently.
 
This site says their Ti brake fittings are highly corrosion resistant.
http://www.oppracing.com/products/483-h ... ake-lines/

Btw, anodized Al surface is formed by oxidizing Al to from a sapphire layer like non scratch watch crytals. Color is applied to open Al pores first then oxidized over by heat-water and electric charge to speed up natural process. Anodizing solution tends to wash out color so extra color added for best end result. Food coloring works just fine for this if doing your own.
 
" think the best way to make a bike handle better by weight saving is to drill and countersink the bolts and drill the spindles."

A far greater improvement all the way around is for the rider to lose the weight... :)
 
I am about 155 lb naked, Peel's axles have been drilled out ~1/3rd at front, 1/4th rear. Hope to get under 500 lb total Peel+me, wet and armored. Past Peel was already under 360 lb with steel tubed wheels, cast iron barrel battery box, oil tank, covers and mounts signals, mirrors and cushy thick seat and hi riser bars and passenger pegs and real loop struts. Stunting gas tank only holds ~1/2 gallon.

Peel's getting to point that less mass off gives higher percentage off total.
Personally I love Peels 28 lb long steel tube frame, it seems to allow everything else to go nutzo around it and pass that through w/o bother. Playing with this i found I can detect effects of ~5 lb off or ~1 more hp worth. Slight but felt.

Everyone keep mentioning mass on handling - of course that sure matters but Peel was already light enough her mass did not subtract from her extreme handling. I want it for smoother rougher rides and faster bee line sprints and retrieving. It will take me awhile to learn the new CoG effects as Peel gets so loose on purpose - twisting bike on Cog and flying CoG off surface and landings is part of phase 3 to 5 aiming. Phase 3>5 is my fascination. Peel was faster by about a shift range of speed hooking up turns in ordinary phase 2 steering than any thing else tried or observed. So if you just picture Ms Peel and SR1000 going through turns neck and neck with Peel creeping out ahead, FORGET ABOUT IT.
That ain't half good enough and means Peels is just another pretty sounding quaint obsolete handling experiment. What motivates your hobby?
Titanium?
 
Ugh I'm not a pretty sight but have ridden out of sight to my mail box and back, ~1 mile, just civvies and barefoot in moccasins, at night, under canopy of trees with a bright moon. Feeling silly as hell but tingling all over too.

Titanium?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top