The relative (un)importance of HP on public roads

ludwig

ludwig

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An illustration of why HP doesn’t matter so much in the real world.
Normally I don’t like to type long posts, but with this covid confinement, I have time to waste.
Time and place: July 2014, Nüfenen pass, Switzerland.
4 bikes ( no names):

A. Triumph Sprint, 118 hp
B. Norton Commando 45 hp (me)
C. Kawasaki 900 140 hp
D. Triumph Sprint, 118 hp

In those days, ‘everyone’ had onboard cameras installed.
The novelty has worn off now. Everything is already on Youtube.

The first clip is from me.
We had stopped short before the top to wait for 2 other riders, but they didn’t show up, so we took off.
At the top of the pass, A stops again and walks over to C .
He proposes to C (not audible on my clip) to take the lead, because he has the fastest bike and maybe doesn’t want to be ‘held up’.
C declines the offer, says he has his camera on, and is going to video us from behind.
A and B take off.
The second clip is the follow up from C’s camera.
C waits a while for D to start up, but by doing so, he gives A and B almost a full minute headstart (screenshot).
C has clearly the intention to catch up.
Shouldn't be a problem with 140 hp, right?
A and B are certainly not playing hard to catch, just keeping their normal pace.
The first part is a twisty descent into the Ticino valley, and then mostly straight to Airolo.
For 22 km C tries to catch up, only to find A and B waiting at the outskirt of Airolo ( screenshot).
He did catch up a lot, but ( to our surprise) not enough.
I have cut C’s video short for Youtube, but the timer on the screenshots tells that he did 16 min. Over 22 km,
Averaging 82.5 km/h .not bad, considering the four 50km/h zones on that stretch.
Of course, C could have gone faster ( so could we) but speeding in Switzerland is tricky business.
Fines are high, and if you overdo it, they will put you in jail and recycle your bike into cowbells.
Now I hear you say:’ this ride was mostly downhill, uphill would be a different '.
mm.. not really, but that’s another story..

The road:
The relative (un)importance of HP on public roads


C taking off:
The relative (un)importance of HP on public roads


End of the ride. A and B looking bored:
The relative (un)importance of HP on public roads


1st clip, from my camera, riding to the top of the pass:





2nd clip, from C's camera, going after us, just seen disappearing in the distance.
The way he uses the whole width of the road tells that he is not on a sightseeing trip:


 
Last edited:
50HP is plenty for road work, if you are not overweight and/or with a lot of gear. If just a solo rider under 175# with a backpack, you shouldn't have too much trouble unless a very steep upgrade, and you can still pass slow vehicles quickly when clear.

100+ HP bikes typically have several hundred more pounds of bike weight (including lots more rubber on the tires), so lots of that horsepower is used just carrying THAT additional load.

Most people don't think too much about that...
 
ludwig said:
An illustration of why HP doesn’t matter so much in the real world.
Normally I don’t like to type long posts, but with this covid confinement, I have time to waste.
Time and place: July 2014, Nüfenen pass, Switzerland.
4 bikes ( no names):

A. Triumph Sprint, 118 hp
B. Norton Commando 45 hp (me)
C. Kawasaki 900 140 hp
D. Triumph Sprint, 118 hp

In those days, ‘everyone’ had onboard cameras installed.
The novelty has worn off now. Everything is already on Youtube.

The first clip is from me.
We had stopped short before the top to wait for 2 other riders, but they didn’t show up, so we took off.
At the top of the pass, A stops again and walks over to C .
He proposes to C (not audible on my clip) to take the lead, because he has the fastest bike and maybe doesn’t want to be ‘held up’.
C declines the offer, says he has his camera on, and is going to video us from behind.
A and B take off.
The second clip is the follow up from C’s camera.
C waits a while for D to start up, but by doing so, he gives A and B almost a full minute headstart (screenshot).
C has clearly the intention to catch up.
Shouldn't be a problem with 140 hp, right?
A and B are certainly not playing hard to catch, just keeping their normal pace.
The first part is a twisty descent into the Ticino valley, and then mostly straight to Airolo.
For 22 km C tries to catch up, only to find A and B waiting at the outskirt of Airolo ( screenshot).
He did catch up a lot, but ( to our surprise) not enough.
I have cut C’s video short for Youtube, but the timer on the screenshots tells that he did 16 min. Over 22 km,

your shocks look like they are doing a good job!
Click to expand...
 
A 1969 46 BHP Triumph Bonneville is enough excitement for anyone. One thing which I really hate is blind corners. You cannot afford to ride on your reflexes. When I was a kid, I used to speed everywhere, but as I got older I got smarter and went racing. There is one blind corner on Broadford race circuit which has already killed a few. And one on the Mount Gambier race circuit. When the guys used to race at Bathurst, it was mind-blowing stuff. But on public roads, it can be ten times worse.
 
Was brought up to believe 40hp was enough for some fun and getting hurt ... through my experiences of last 50 yrs both are true .... While I tend to favour the 75hp? Griso over the Norton , mostly for electric start and just so careful with the old bike , the Norton is still way fun up over Nuttby Mtn. to our north shore ...
 
The biggest advantage I see of having more horsepower is the ability to make safer passes on slow cars, particularly on roads where the sight lines might be long enough to safely pass on a bike with good power-to-weight ratio, but not on one a bit slower. The popular riding roads around here typically have a fair amount of traffic, and being able to pass safely can make the difference between having a fun ride or a boring procession. Other than that, I have just as much fun, and sometimes more, riding a 60 hp bike as I do on one with 120+ hp.

Ken
 
I don't know exactly how much my little legs pump out, but I've fell off/ crashed my push bike plenty of times- it was all good practice for the upgrade to motorcycles!
 
lcrken said:
The biggest advantage I see of having more horsepower is the ability to make safer passes on slow cars, particularly on roads where the sight lines might be long enough to safely pass on a bike with good power-to-weight ratio, but not on one a bit slower. The popular riding roads around here typically have a fair amount of traffic, and being able to pass safely can make the difference between having a fun ride or a boring procession. Other than that, I have just as much fun, and sometimes more, riding a 60 hp bike as I do on one with 120+ hp.

Ken
Click to expand...
I think that’s an extremely valid point.

There’s no doubt that the average speed of normal road traffic is much higher than it used to be.

I’ve done more miles on my humble stock-ish T140 than anything else this year. I really enjoy it, but I definitely spend far more miles sat behind cars than I do on any of my other bikes. For precisely the reasons you mention Ken.
 
Many years ago, when I was working as a courier in London, I was chatting to one of my mates who also raced (Superbikes, on both short circuits and public roads) and he was laughing as he told me about being out near the Chalfonts the previous day, on his 750 Suzuki when a kid on a 125 rode underneath him on a roundabout. Unimpressed, Vince chased (and obviously passed him) only for the same thing to happen at the next 3 roundabouts. The kid then turned off in a different direction, and waved as he did.

Never underestimate local knowledge and bravery when it comes to getting from A to B in a hurry
 

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