The Commando that came in from the Cold.
- Thread starter KzJonny
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The bars look like the Triumph T140 bars I ran on my favorite Commando so not ape hangers but comfortable good leverage pull backs well accepted classic Brit Iron issue - except for this forum. Would like a better look at the luggage rack which appeals to me too that fits racks on my Combats to help them earn their keep. Maybe was a Roadster but maybe only after a crash. I tend to smash head light and bars and tank in my deer induced let downs so thank goodness Commando are modular to out fit. Gave up on factory turn signals and glad not legalluy required till after '72 model year.
franko
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On your list of things to do.
The nut (or new half/jamb nut) on the timing side foot peg can be used on the rubber side, instead of the cover side, of the holder, to lock the peg onto the holder.
Run the nut up to the end of the threads on the peg, then screw the peg into the holder as far as it will go.
Doing this will allow you to measure the excess sticking out of the hanger and cut it off.
Grind or file a chamfer onto the peg. Reinstall, tightening the nut against the holder.
This will give abit more than an additional half an inch clearance to the primary cover.
A minor tip over wont scar the primary chain cover so easily.
She looks like a good project. Most motorcycles become mistresses, Nortons are more of a dominatrix.
Frank Coleman
The nut (or new half/jamb nut) on the timing side foot peg can be used on the rubber side, instead of the cover side, of the holder, to lock the peg onto the holder.
Run the nut up to the end of the threads on the peg, then screw the peg into the holder as far as it will go.
Doing this will allow you to measure the excess sticking out of the hanger and cut it off.
Grind or file a chamfer onto the peg. Reinstall, tightening the nut against the holder.
This will give abit more than an additional half an inch clearance to the primary cover.
A minor tip over wont scar the primary chain cover so easily.
She looks like a good project. Most motorcycles become mistresses, Nortons are more of a dominatrix.
Frank Coleman
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Whip that un-named baby into shape. Take that Credit card and increase the limit (so easy with eager help ) then max it out. Reality . Your personal banker. 
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From the images posted the front fork tubes look like they will need to be replaced. I had the same dark spots on a Triumph that I restored that were scratched and rusted and would have just torn up any new fork seals. If you have the room set up a large table ( I use a 4x8 foot sheet of plywood on two saw horses) to lay out the parts as you remove them. That way you can see everything at once much better than putting parts in various boxes. Also you can judge your progress as you clean, polish or paint parts and replace them on the table. Looks like just about every bolt head and nut is rusted from being outside find a good rust remover or replace the bolts. The oxidation on the aluminum parts will clean up surprisingly well if you clean the parts then wet sand from 250 to 800 grit sand paper then polish on a wheel. You can make them look like chrome with the right effort and materials. Good luck, nothing more satisfying then the first time you kick it over after all the hours of work that goes into one of these machines to bring it back to life.
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My flat areas in home shop and garage are occupied my more important things in dis-repair so I use clearn food containers for each major items parts so can see what it is w/o labling and those plus large items go in tub or box so animals, me or wife don't kick em around. Lables tend to get smuged- wiped off of plastic bags so label should be on paper dropped in or taped on, especially for matching sides like valve train parts. Youtube Alu polish to see they all go to 2000 or finer grit before the rubbing compounds used > then 3 grades of bluffing polish to get mirror like shine, which don't last but a few seasons at most unless constant waxed or oiled like Strongarm coated. I'd say 1200 is about mininum to begin polishing and not be frustrated with all the dull areas high lighted by the shinier patches. I sand away most goudges and nicks but deep ones I just sand & polish over leaving them as beauty marks that don't distract form the over all nice finish. If they are too big wide deep ugly then you will not be happy till replaced and re-finishing processed. Once ya get started on polishing every imprefection stands out more and more like prefect paint job with a finger print smudge, unnoticed on slightly lesser shine but center of attention otherwise. Basic lesion is to sand longer and harder deeper than seems necessary each step or next step reveals the obvious missed area and must go back a step before moving on. Sand blast shop told me frame would cost over $200 and what it takes for approaching perfection so I spent a week of handful hours a day scrapping, chipping and then wire brushing then few grades of sanding then pickling and masking before primer coats applied and sanded back for base color sanded back a few times repeated then few layers of clear coat I'm not yet finished buffing and polishing pretty decently before waxing, not counting my screw ups with drips, runs and handling nicks or seeing I missed something a couple steps back so a week longer than planned to let layers set up enough to redo here and there. Can't paint inside nor in wet or too cold outside so may have to wait til spring or find inside place to paint if not sending off for a pro paint or powerder coating, which has its own downsides in real world use. Stove emanmel would be best but not hardly done anymore. If ya spend a few hours most days on this may get done in a couple years.
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As before, thanks again for the encouraging comments, and insight. Before I get going on what I hope to happen with this bike, here are a few photos of the random goodies that came along with the bike. As I said before, I didn't find a seat or mufflers when I picked the bike up, which is too bad, but probably not the most expensive things I am going to have to buy to get this this rolling, so nothing much more to be done but heave a deep sigh, and carry on.
Anyway, Photos!
Body parts:
Given that this IS a '71, could these be factory parts? The tanks appears to be fibreglass, although the inside looks more like plastic. Perhaps some kind of lining, or was this how they were made? Plastic parts held together with fibreglass at the seams....
Stuff:
I don`t know if this is readable to all, but it is the list of what I THINK i have by way of spare parts so far. I had to sift through a few boxes of old Brit Iron parts to suss out what was (probably) Norton stuff, and what wasn`t. As there were 3 Austin Minis in various states of assembly in the same garage, it was a little tough, but I think I managed to get all the norton stuff, and only wound up with one box full of what I now assume are Mini spares.
Not sure if that steering stabilizer is something that was used or cobbled onto Commandos back in the day, but it came in a Honda wrapping paper, and to my knowledge, mine nuncle never owned or rode a Honda.
So, I know I will need a huge and expensive list of replacement parts (ie: anything that was rubber. Operative word being WAS, as most of it is crumbing/falling apart.) As mentioned, I expect very much that this will take a couple of years, and even at that it won`t result in a show bike, just a runner, and a weekend rider. I will do what polishing and cleaning I can accomplish at home, but don`t think I will have the money to do anything like have the frame blasted and painted or powdercoated. She will very likely come back to life with most of the cosmetic problem, and battle scars intact. Money will be principally spent on getting the engine and drivetrain back to spec, any machine work that needs to be done, and a getting the ignition and carbs into pristine shape. (Very probably will swap out the points and contacts for a Pazon, as I will be in NZ again this year, and can pick one up locally... I do so hate playing with gaps and constantly adjusting timing.)
Hobot: I do have a bit better space to do work, and make a mess than in the living room!
It`s just a space in the basement, and set up more for my cabinetry and furniture building, but it did a good job when converted into a work space while I was doing a frame up rebuild on my Kawi. I missed the boat this year on being able to get the Norton into it, but I don`t know that I could have anyway. I use the basement walk-through to get the bikes in and out on a temporary ramp, and without functional brakes on the Norton, that didn`t seem particularly safe. In any case, the Kaw is in there now for finishing touches, and some repairs of damage caused this summer by a drunken hooligan. :? Also, you are right, it is a bit of a POS, but it is MY pos Commando. Also, as I mentioned in the other thread I started last year, bike belonged to my Uncle, who was the original owner. So at least I know it hasn`t passed through a million hands and been horribly abused. He was an engineer, and at despite years of neglect, this bike would not have had stuff installed backwards or beaten up when it ought not have been.
Anyway, here is an interesting goody, which is barely readable now, but maybe you can make a little bit out:
Original reciept for parts from Gus Kuhn motors in London. I like that the fork conversion kit for a disc brake was 80 pounds. Reckon I can get a little bit more for it now. =)
Anyway, maybe this will offer a little more insight into the story of the bike as well. I wonder why the jugs are painted black, as I was under the impression they were all bare metal until they started painted the Combats black. May have been something my uncle did, but who knows. Seems like there are plenty on non-standard things done to these bikes, even from factory.
She at least looks a little better after a quick clean up, and removing some of the detritus. (Rest assured, I am keeping everything for the time being, nothing will actually get tossed into the garbage. Things like the cargo rack will be kept for later sale or trade or donation or what have you!)
Cheers All!
Jon
Anyway, Photos!
Body parts:
Given that this IS a '71, could these be factory parts? The tanks appears to be fibreglass, although the inside looks more like plastic. Perhaps some kind of lining, or was this how they were made? Plastic parts held together with fibreglass at the seams....
Stuff:
I don`t know if this is readable to all, but it is the list of what I THINK i have by way of spare parts so far. I had to sift through a few boxes of old Brit Iron parts to suss out what was (probably) Norton stuff, and what wasn`t. As there were 3 Austin Minis in various states of assembly in the same garage, it was a little tough, but I think I managed to get all the norton stuff, and only wound up with one box full of what I now assume are Mini spares.
Not sure if that steering stabilizer is something that was used or cobbled onto Commandos back in the day, but it came in a Honda wrapping paper, and to my knowledge, mine nuncle never owned or rode a Honda.
So, I know I will need a huge and expensive list of replacement parts (ie: anything that was rubber. Operative word being WAS, as most of it is crumbing/falling apart.) As mentioned, I expect very much that this will take a couple of years, and even at that it won`t result in a show bike, just a runner, and a weekend rider. I will do what polishing and cleaning I can accomplish at home, but don`t think I will have the money to do anything like have the frame blasted and painted or powdercoated. She will very likely come back to life with most of the cosmetic problem, and battle scars intact. Money will be principally spent on getting the engine and drivetrain back to spec, any machine work that needs to be done, and a getting the ignition and carbs into pristine shape. (Very probably will swap out the points and contacts for a Pazon, as I will be in NZ again this year, and can pick one up locally... I do so hate playing with gaps and constantly adjusting timing.)
Hobot: I do have a bit better space to do work, and make a mess than in the living room!
It`s just a space in the basement, and set up more for my cabinetry and furniture building, but it did a good job when converted into a work space while I was doing a frame up rebuild on my Kawi. I missed the boat this year on being able to get the Norton into it, but I don`t know that I could have anyway. I use the basement walk-through to get the bikes in and out on a temporary ramp, and without functional brakes on the Norton, that didn`t seem particularly safe. In any case, the Kaw is in there now for finishing touches, and some repairs of damage caused this summer by a drunken hooligan. :? Also, you are right, it is a bit of a POS, but it is MY pos Commando. Also, as I mentioned in the other thread I started last year, bike belonged to my Uncle, who was the original owner. So at least I know it hasn`t passed through a million hands and been horribly abused. He was an engineer, and at despite years of neglect, this bike would not have had stuff installed backwards or beaten up when it ought not have been.
Anyway, here is an interesting goody, which is barely readable now, but maybe you can make a little bit out:
Original reciept for parts from Gus Kuhn motors in London. I like that the fork conversion kit for a disc brake was 80 pounds. Reckon I can get a little bit more for it now. =)
Anyway, maybe this will offer a little more insight into the story of the bike as well. I wonder why the jugs are painted black, as I was under the impression they were all bare metal until they started painted the Combats black. May have been something my uncle did, but who knows. Seems like there are plenty on non-standard things done to these bikes, even from factory.
She at least looks a little better after a quick clean up, and removing some of the detritus. (Rest assured, I am keeping everything for the time being, nothing will actually get tossed into the garbage. Things like the cargo rack will be kept for later sale or trade or donation or what have you!)
Cheers All!
Jon
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Looks like you have a good supply of parts and pieces. Does the gas tank have two buttons on the rear? It looks a lot like the stock tank on my Commando "S". Being fiberglass it may have been lined with a coating to combat the corrosive effects of ethanol gas. Can you get ethanol free gas where you live? You can use it in that tank but if not it will make a mess of things in short order. What size are the pistons? You may need them when you get the motor apart. I have the same blue wrench of the exhaust nuts. Your basement work area looks perfect. I have a buddy who is rebuilding a bike in his basement. It all went down in pieces not quite sure how it is going to come out since the stairway has a 90 degree bend in it. May take a group of us and a 12 pack of brew to get the job done.
Nater_Potater
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You already have two of the more important specialty tools right there; exhaust nut wrench and clutch spring compressor. You're halfway home. 'Should be running by this Spring!KzJonny said:
As pointed out earlier, those fork tubes have had their chrome worn through, so please don't waste that fork rebuild kit on them. Get new tubes. Besides, that's one less thing to have to clean.
Nathan
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On the plus side, yes, we can get pure petrol where I live. It is usually the high cost, high octane (93) stuff, but some stations are all ethanol free at all the pumps. You just need to have a look around. I only run ethanol free stuff in my Kaw as well, even tho it has a perfectly good steel tank, and will run on base grade fuel. Without getting into the ridiculous politics and wastefulness of ethanol blended fuels, I am more concerned about increased valve and port temperatures in my air cooled bikes, so I stay away from the stuff. Good to know that I can still use the original tank, since new ones are awefully spendy. Oh, and yes, it does have two buttons on the bottom at the back. So, perhaps stock after all.
The pistons are 10 thou over, which I assume is first overbore for these machines. Assuming the cylinders are not in great shape after such a long time, I guess they will do the job. I will post a closer photo of them as well, since they have a series of holes drilled out of the skirts, and I am wondering if they are the dreaded `comma` type which explode. Wouldn`t want to use them if that were the case. I am a reasonable hand with doing this kind of work on bikes, but my experience is mainly with Japanese unit construction bikes. I`ve had a parallel twin 400 and 440 in the past, so the internal bits here should be somewhat parallel, but from what I`ve been reading, there are notable difference when working on a pre-unit setup. I don`t recall the crankcase ventilation and wet sumping being problems, or issues to be dealt with on the same scale. It only took an afternoons reading here to figure out the issues with the timed breather setup on my 71, and realize that it will likely need to be improved! =)
Hope you pal has luck getting the bike back out! It wasn`t so bad for me, since I have a landlord who seldom visits, and when he saw the shop I`d set up in the basement was jealous, not upset. :lol: I gather he has a big garage which in theory could be a great place to work, but kids and running a business mean it is filled to the gills, and he can`t use it. It only took three of us to get bikes in and out via the temporary ramp, and I am more than happy to provide some brews for the help, which generally means I can do it without breaking stuff off the bike, or getting myself killed or injured in the process!
The pistons are 10 thou over, which I assume is first overbore for these machines. Assuming the cylinders are not in great shape after such a long time, I guess they will do the job. I will post a closer photo of them as well, since they have a series of holes drilled out of the skirts, and I am wondering if they are the dreaded `comma` type which explode. Wouldn`t want to use them if that were the case. I am a reasonable hand with doing this kind of work on bikes, but my experience is mainly with Japanese unit construction bikes. I`ve had a parallel twin 400 and 440 in the past, so the internal bits here should be somewhat parallel, but from what I`ve been reading, there are notable difference when working on a pre-unit setup. I don`t recall the crankcase ventilation and wet sumping being problems, or issues to be dealt with on the same scale. It only took an afternoons reading here to figure out the issues with the timed breather setup on my 71, and realize that it will likely need to be improved! =)
Hope you pal has luck getting the bike back out! It wasn`t so bad for me, since I have a landlord who seldom visits, and when he saw the shop I`d set up in the basement was jealous, not upset. :lol: I gather he has a big garage which in theory could be a great place to work, but kids and running a business mean it is filled to the gills, and he can`t use it. It only took three of us to get bikes in and out via the temporary ramp, and I am more than happy to provide some brews for the help, which generally means I can do it without breaking stuff off the bike, or getting myself killed or injured in the process!
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http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... del=n750_0
#
Jim Comstock crankcase reed valve breather.
By mail you get the chocolate bar.
You never know what http://www.britishspares.com/ might have in stock.
You will find the standard things to look out for as you progress.
The transmission case on my 71 was not cracked between the bearing bores, luck of the draw.
The original layshaft bearing was starting to show signs of trouble.
#
Jim Comstock crankcase reed valve breather.
By mail you get the chocolate bar.
You never know what http://www.britishspares.com/ might have in stock.
You will find the standard things to look out for as you progress.
The transmission case on my 71 was not cracked between the bearing bores, luck of the draw.
The original layshaft bearing was starting to show signs of trouble.
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KzJonny,KzJonny said:
Shell Hi octane is what I run. No ethanol.
Keep the fiberglass tank as long as you keep away from ethanol and you will have no problems. The buttons on the back to the tank is for a large "o-ring' to hook around the top spine tube.
Pistons normally come +0.020, +0.040, +0.060 but if you got +10 with rings then get the machine shop to examine the total wear in the bores. You might be lucky. If they have the holes then you should be fine. The pistons with the slot across the oil groove are what you don't want. Your bike probably has a vent at the cam just above the primary. Not the best way to vent. Comnoz has a good solution that would take care of the venting as well as clearing the wet sumping. Walridge has a sale on if you want to spend your money. Maybe some new spokes and rims to add to bling. Good Luck.
Tom
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TW that layshaft bearing is the real terror ,rough . Nice to see so many new vintage era parts laid out. Am interested in new pistons as to type , and remembering that each side bored for each individual piston side so hopefully machinist marked left or right assembly side to match for correct fitting :| .
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No ideas who the manufacturer was, but I think they were on the receipt from Gus Kuhn Motors somwhere, so presumably an acceptable source for Norton parts, at least 37 years ago it was anyway...
They are marked with RHS and LHS, so that much is clear, as well as which side is intake and exhaust, in case of the user being a complete dummy, i suppose. Never having seem a set of Cdo pistons before, I am assuming they are going to be about right. So long as a 0.010 overbore will be sufficient to clean up the cylinders at any rate. I have hope tho, after a week or so of soaking, the engine turns over very easily by hand using the kickstarter. Not to ignore the advice of others here suggesting that turning her over is a waste of time, i really didn`t want to start breaking down the top end, only to find her hopelessly seized. May not be indicative of much, but if much of the penetrant is still sitting atop the pistons in the cylinders, perhaps there is hope that the bores aren`t so badly grooved or corroded. My logic being that if a penetrant isn`t all able to run immediately past the rings, they may still be capable of holding compression after all. Who knows. In any case, it is one less thing to have to purchace, although I don`t recall having seem wrist pin locking clips in the kit, so hopefully they are a fairly universal fit. (Sorry, should that be gudgeon pins...)
More to come, I`ve found a few funny bits which I can`t, at present ID...
Jon
They are marked with RHS and LHS, so that much is clear, as well as which side is intake and exhaust, in case of the user being a complete dummy, i suppose. Never having seem a set of Cdo pistons before, I am assuming they are going to be about right. So long as a 0.010 overbore will be sufficient to clean up the cylinders at any rate. I have hope tho, after a week or so of soaking, the engine turns over very easily by hand using the kickstarter. Not to ignore the advice of others here suggesting that turning her over is a waste of time, i really didn`t want to start breaking down the top end, only to find her hopelessly seized. May not be indicative of much, but if much of the penetrant is still sitting atop the pistons in the cylinders, perhaps there is hope that the bores aren`t so badly grooved or corroded. My logic being that if a penetrant isn`t all able to run immediately past the rings, they may still be capable of holding compression after all. Who knows. In any case, it is one less thing to have to purchace, although I don`t recall having seem wrist pin locking clips in the kit, so hopefully they are a fairly universal fit. (Sorry, should that be gudgeon pins...)
More to come, I`ve found a few funny bits which I can`t, at present ID...
Jon
N0rt0nelectr@
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As you take it apart take pictures, lots of pictures. Both before and after. Works well when you try to make out how things go back together.
ashman
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Who knows you might be lucky with the bores, it will depend when you pull them off and a good clean will tell you if they are still good, if your feeling lucky a light hone and new rings might be all you need, but you will find out sooner than later, good luck with this project will be watching closely.
Ashley
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