Thank you, Yves.

olympus said:
Until an accurate costing process is carried out & an evaluation on tbe potential take up from the forum members .... we won't know the actual cost?????
Click to expand...
You are correct.

But having been in the metal trades my whole life, I gave you some abstracts.💷

Good luck. 🤝🏻
 
olympus said:
Until an accurate costing process is carried out & an evaluation on tbe potential take up from the forum members .... we won't know the actual cost?????
Click to expand...
You need to let go. Ain’t gonna happen. Unless you take the project on with a willing engineering company.
 
zotz said:
You would think, this being a fairly common issue and a relatively straight forward fix that Alton would incorporate it themselves. Just sayin'
Click to expand...
Yes, after all it is a great fix to make the starter motor drive through the part that was designed to take that sort of load. Alton's method really is a very poor bodge!
Very nice work @Bonzo !
Cheers
 
robs ss said:
Yes, after all it is a great fix to make the starter motor drive through the part that was designed to take that sort of load. Alton's method really is a very poor bodge!
Very nice work @Bonzo !
Cheers
Click to expand...
“Very poor bodge” … bit harsh innit ?

I do agree that they’re expecting a lot of an interface that was never designed to handle any such force.

But having said that, how many actually fail?

Yves himself was using it on a high compression 920cc motor !
 
zotz said:
Point being though, If your manufacturing a product and there's an opportunity to make it even better, wouldn't that be a plus? Even if a small amount fail one bad complainer makes a lot more noise than 10 happy people.
Click to expand...
All depends on cost and benefit.

Of course, ultimately you are right.

But practically, what would it cost Alton to change the design, how much would it put the price up by, etc?

If lots are failing then it’s a no brainer, it is simply not fit for purpose.

But if one or two have failed out of hundreds sold…?
 
Fast Eddie said:
All depends on cost and benefit.

Of course, ultimately you are right.

But practically, what would it cost Alton to change the design, how much would it put the price up by, etc?

If lots are failing then it’s a no brainer, it is simply not fit for purpose.

But if one or two have failed out of hundreds sold…?
Click to expand...
As I said
It'd be great to how many are fine and how many have sheared the alternator woodruff key
It'd also be great to know the shear strength of the woodruff key
Any metaligists out there?
I'm pretty sure Alton would have looked into this therselves before production
And if it is well within the shear strength of the woodruff key the problem must be elsewhere
 
Here is my take as I have an Alton about 3 years old. If there is a kickback, that force acts on the shear dowels and anything weak in the drive. The idea is that the shear dowels sacrifice themselves to avoid causing mechanical damage elsewhere. The number of dowels can be adjusted.

If the woodruff key shears, to me, it is because the clamping of the crank end nut did not compress the Alton rotor properly tight onto the crank taper. Maybe the taper is mismatched. To me, the kickback should not be opposed just by the woodruff key, but it should be also opposed by the rotor taper tight contact on the crank. When I pull my Aton rotor off the crank, I loosen the crank nut and I do need a puller to get it off. That is a good thing and to me means the taper to taper is doing as it should

But given all that, the only solution is to not have kickbacks and my Tri-Spark, if properly timed has ATDC spark timing below 500rpm (I think about 8 degree ish ATDC ) and more important is that if voltage to the Tri Spark drops low, it reportly does not spark earlier like other electronic ignitions might.

Dennis
 
DennisMo said:
Here is my take as I have an Alton about 3 years old. If there is a kickback, that force acts on the shear dowels and anything weak in the drive. The idea is that the shear dowels sacrifice themselves to avoid causing mechanical damage elsewhere. The number of dowels can be adjusted.

If the woodruff key shears, to me, it is because the clamping of the crank end nut did not compress the Alton rotor properly tight onto the crank taper. Maybe the taper is mismatched. To me, the kickback should not be opposed just by the woodruff key, but it should be also opposed by the rotor taper tight contact on the crank. When I pull my Aton rotor off the crank, I loosen the crank nut and I do need a puller to get it off. That is a good thing and to me means the taper to taper is doing as it should

But given all that, the only solution is to not have kickbacks and my Tri-Spark, if properly timed has ATDC spark timing below 500rpm (I think about 8 degree ish ATDC ) and more important is that if voltage to the Tri Spark drops low, it reportly does not spark earlier like other electronic ignitions might.

Dennis
Click to expand...
Not exactly sure what you mean about the Alton being' properly tight onto the crank taper '?
Where the Alton attaches it's parallel
The only taper is on the crank primary sprocket?
 
I wasn't talking about kickback.
That alternator key/keyway was designed to take the (minimal) torque of the alternator rotor whilst charging.
It was not designed to take the geared torque of a starter motor against an engine that doesn't want to turn over.
Yves solution simply transfers the starting torque through the path it alway should have taken - through the primary pinion.

For Alton's next trick, they'll have the final drive through the speedo drive! 🤣
 
I must have a terrible memory. I stand corrected and thank Baz. But there is something that is creating a lot of stiction as pulling off the Alton rotor takes force. Now it all comes back. Alton said that the rotor should slip into place and if not lightly sand the crank to allow this. But there is something that is a little malleable that makes the rotor tough to pull off and I think (hope) that helps with resisting kickbacks. I do tighten the rotor into place without loctite, then 24 hrs later, unscrew the nut and retorque it with blue loctite. Next time I will mark the nut with a felt pen and see waiting 24 hours for a loosen and retorque results in the nut turning a little more. Thanks Baz
 
robs ss said:
I wasn't talking about kickback.
That alternator key/keyway was designed to take the (minimal) torque of the alternator rotor whilst charging.
It was not designed to take the geared torque of a starter motor against an engine that doesn't want to turn over.
Yves solution simply transfers the starting torque through the path it alway should have taken - through the primary pinion.

For Alton's next trick, they'll have the final drive through the speedo drive! 🤣
Click to expand...
Hence my question about the alternator keyway being able to handle the shear force
If it's well within it's capabilities then the problem lies elsewhere
Yves came up with his solution to stop the keyway sheering when his motor was out to 920 with high compression pistons
So it looks to me as a layman that the keyway reached it's limit
But we need an expert to work it out to be sure
 
DennisMo said:
I must have a terrible memory. I stand corrected and thank Baz. But there is something that is creating a lot of stiction as pulling off the Alton rotor takes force. Now it all comes back. Alton said that the rotor should slip into place and if not lightly sand the crank to allow this. But there is something that is a little malleable that makes the rotor tough to pull off and I think (hope) that helps with resisting kickbacks. I do tighten the rotor into place without loctite, then 24 hrs later, unscrew the nut and retorque it with blue loctite. Next time I will mark the nut with a felt pen and see waiting 24 hours for a loosen and retorque results in the nut turning a little more. Thanks Baz
Click to expand...
We all remember things wrong now and then
Nobody is worse than me for that 🤣🤣🤣👍👍.
It happens
 

Similar threads

B
A shout-out/thank you to Greg Marsh
Replies
9
Views
1,419
BERT
BERT
texasSlick
Thank you Lowes
Replies
8
Views
1,596
trident sam
T
baz
  • Locked
Thank you Yves
Replies
9
Views
1,760
grandpaul
grandpaul
Luke Turner
Thank you!
Replies
7
Views
2,173
Chuck_Wagon
Chuck_Wagon
CoconutJo75
A big thank you
2 3
Replies
55
Views
10,764
Britfan60
Britfan60
Back
Top