Tank Sealant

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Thats a bit like asking a plumber to carry out a house rewire............that guy has no specific understanding of the issues involved relating to sealing tanks, and is unlikely to want to become involved. Take a close look at ceramic/epoxy sealants used in the petro-chemical industry, and also the industrial range supplied by people like PPG.

More to the point though here in the UK the snake oil sellers are now suggesting that totally unsuitable novalac epoxy products are fit for use within GRP tanks, although this is not backed by any sort of recognisable test procedures, and comes about purely due to the want for increased profits!
 
Hmm, I see that I was probably guilty of not expressing what I considered as 'the point' of my post. The point is that, after two (?) years of searching, sometimes searching heavy, and admittedly sometimes with months of not searching... I have NEVER found 'THE' definative solution to keeping and using the 'glass tank. I do not think I am the only individual frustrated with this issue, hence the constant discussions and posts about this issue, over and over again, ad nauseum. There has been some OUTSTANDING work shown, displayed, and shared at this forum re this issue, but I continue to find that there is no 'final' answer (with re to using the OEM 'glass tank by itself).

At this point, I am believing that I must do whatever I can do to provide myself peace of mind (sealing interior of tank) for 'temporary' storage of fuel and, as others have elected to do here, fuel the bike immediately prior to a ride and, when done riding, simply DRAIN all the fuel back out of the tank. Probably pop it open to so it can thoroughly dry. Next ride? Simply repeat. Never keep fuel in the tank, regardless of how well I 'believe' the sealer will work.

I have seen first hand the horror of a failed tank. Sealed, AND drained when not in use... I do believe will be in my best interest. I found a site in the UK a year or so back that claimed to market a steel Interstate tank, but, when I inquired (repeatedly) over several months, the only responce was that they continued to be sold out, awaiting more, and that I was on their 'waiting list'. Even at the rediculous price of (bare steel, $800 USD??), seems quite lame that there is still nothing out there, and over a year later, I've heard nothing from them.

Ah, well, such is life... sigh.
 
I, too, faced the quandary as to what to do with my glass Roadster tank. Following the threads on this site seemed to indicate the slosh sealants are sketchy, at best. Cutting open the tank was not an option for me. Seems to me the integrity of the tank is destroyed once it has been cut. Steel tanks seemed to be a solution except for the rust problem, also exacerbated by ethanol. Consequently, I decided aluminum tanks provided the better solution. At the time, a year ago or so, Waldridge had some made in Canada aluminum tanks for $395 USD. They are not acceptable for polishing and mine needed some contour work before painting. With some work you end up with a tank that is probably more resistant to the ravages of modern fuels than any other available for the Commando at the present time.
 
Again I suggest you talk to George at fueltankservices.com he claims to have found a permanent solution to this. Be prepaired for a leangthly conversation & have a dictionary handy, the guy can talk for hours about his procedure. I don't know if it works but he is fairly convincing.
 
Spent the last hour ranging around the globe, continued search pattern. Stumbled across a product that I actually do believe I have never heard of before, nor heard discussed on this site. Here's a 'copy and paste':

FUEL TANK LINER
BLUE LIGHTNING - FUEL TANK LINER-QT. Seals all types of tanks Metal, Fiberglass, & Plastic Not affected by fuel additives. Flexible Doesn't dry rock hard like others. Seals Pin holes & seem leaks. 1Qt. will do approx. 30 gallons Use Blue Lightning Rust Remover to clean tank of any rust or films in the tank. $38.95

Anyone here ever heard of this product?
As for an aluminum Interstate tank, I wish.
 
Gary said:
Hmm, I see that I was probably guilty of not expressing what I considered as 'the point' of my post. The point is that, after two (?) years of searching, sometimes searching heavy, and admittedly sometimes with months of not searching... I have NEVER found 'THE' definative solution to keeping and using the 'glass tank. I do not think I am the only individual frustrated with this issue, hence the constant discussions and posts about this issue, over and over again, ad nauseum. There has been some OUTSTANDING work shown, displayed, and shared at this forum re this issue, but I continue to find that there is no 'final' answer (with re to using the OEM 'glass tank by itself).

At this point, I am believing that I must do whatever I can do to provide myself peace of mind (sealing interior of tank) for 'temporary' storage of fuel and, as others have elected to do here, fuel the bike immediately prior to a ride and, when done riding, simply DRAIN all the fuel back out of the tank. Probably pop it open to so it can thoroughly dry. Next ride? Simply repeat. Never keep fuel in the tank, regardless of how well I 'believe' the sealer will work.

I have seen first hand the horror of a failed tank. Sealed, AND drained when not in use... I do believe will be in my best interest. I found a site in the UK a year or so back that claimed to market a steel Interstate tank, but, when I inquired (repeatedly) over several months, the only responce was that they continued to be sold out, awaiting more, and that I was on their 'waiting list'. Even at the rediculous price of (bare steel, $800 USD??), seems quite lame that there is still nothing out there, and over a year later, I've heard nothing from them.

Ah, well, such is life... sigh.
Click to expand...


There is nothing on the market currently in the way of tank sealers, that has either been properly tested, or is likely to work long term. Industrially there are several products which seem suitable, such as epoxy resins with ceramic fillers, used to line pipework in the petro-chemical industry, and very special novalac VE resins, which are used to line the insides of failing sewer pipes.

However while a product along the lines of those mentioned above in modified form would be likely to work very well indeed, the numerous ridiculous untested snake oils mean that the market has already been saturated by products that simply dont work, and this beens customer confidence in such products has been very much undermined, and very unlikely to attract a big company with the resources to development and properly test a workable sealing system.

But from the perspective of DIY application of anything whose success depends very heavily on proper prior preparation work, even with a sealer that was 100% effective, failure would still be a distinct possibility should prep work not have been carried out properly.

I had a long chat with someone working in the labs at PPG about this subject last year, and he outlined the very specific test procedures they use to test their industrial sealing products, which contrasted very strongly with the snake oil testing which seems to consist largely of pouring and then praying!
 
I posted above about a tank liner product I'd never heard of. Blue Lightening, something like that. I got a reply. Makes me leery. The reply is in format of e-mail, my question being below the reply, as follows:

Hi, Yes it is.
Thanks Bill

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 9:19 AM, <feedback-form@mail.zoovy.com> wrote:

Sender Email: (removed by me :)
Is your blue lightening fuel tank liner guarunteed to be impervious to the ethanol in gasoline? I wish to coat the inside of an antique fiberglass fuel tank, and whatever coat used MUST stop ethanol from getting to the fiberglass...

Thoughts? Personally, as much as I'd like to believe it... there's many snake oils out there as carbon says...
Maybe I'll ask this guy what were the TESTS performed, and how do I access the test results :twisted:
 
Gary said:
I posted above about a tank liner product I'd never heard of. Blue Lightening, something like that. I got a reply. Makes me leery. The reply is in format of e-mail, my question being below the reply, as follows:

Hi, Yes it is.
Thanks Bill

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 9:19 AM, <feedback-form@mail.zoovy.com> wrote:

Sender Email: (removed by me :)
Is your blue lightening fuel tank liner guarunteed to be impervious to the ethanol in gasoline? I wish to coat the inside of an antique fiberglass fuel tank, and whatever coat used MUST stop ethanol from getting to the fiberglass...

Thoughts? Personally, as much as I'd like to believe it... there's many snake oils out there as carbon says...
Maybe I'll ask this guy what were the TESTS performed, and how do I access the test results :twisted:
Click to expand...

Ask the seller for a copy of his test results.............if he isnt able to help, thats a good indication that the product isnt likely to work!

There are several people selling tank sealers here in the UK, and none have carried out proper testing, and they all have application instructions relating to steel tanks, and make no mention of the need for differing methods in regard to GRP!

I contacted one of these idiots, and even after telling him the product he was selling wasnt likely to work, he still refused to carry out even very simple immersion testing!

A very easy way to test a tank sealer before putting it inside a tank (which will be ruined if the sealer fails!) is to coat the inside of something like a glass jar with the sealing product then half fill the jar with surgical spirit (check to see it contains at least 90% ethanol), screw on the lid and wait about a week and see whats happened to the sealer.

In effect this simple test replicates what the likely effect of alcohol bearing fuel on the sealer is going to be over an extended period of time, but condenses this into a much shorter space of time due to the concentration of the corrosive element. Very very easy for the snake oilers to do exactly the same simple test, but not heard of any that have................
 
My friend Wilson at American Indian Specialists has been doing those immersion tests with the polysulphide stuff he's been using for years. Nothing has failed as in peeling or disolving but after a week the gas turns a little darker in color. He thinks some part of the catilist is afected. However he has been using this stuff on every tank and has never had any problems with the sealer coming off or carbs gumming up. I like the stuff because unlike the epoxies, it stays very slightly rubber like so it will not crack from vibration. I still won't use it in my tank until we find out why the gas turns dark and that it won't hurt anything. This sucks, I want to just use my tank & not worry.
 
Nope, for me, believe I'll open her up as Jean does. I''ve done that very exact thing on seriously large projects (sailboats), so not intimated by it. But I for damned sure WILL drain the fuel out every night (unless I'm going to be on the road for a couple of days straight). Winter time, drained and vented open (dry) 'til spring.
 
Carbonfibre said:
A very easy way to test a tank sealer before putting it inside a tank (which will be ruined if the sealer fails!) is to coat the inside of something like a glass jar with the sealing product then half fill the jar with surgical spirit (check to see it contains at least 90% ethanol), screw on the lid and wait about a week and see whats happened to the sealer.

In effect this simple test replicates what the likely effect of alcohol bearing fuel on the sealer is going to be over an extended period of time, but condenses this into a much shorter space of time due to the concentration of the corrosive element. Very very easy for the snake oilers to do exactly the same simple test, but not heard of any that have................
Click to expand...

Take a look here gas-tank-sealer-t4653-75.html I have learned a few thing since, but the Hirsh sealer did the job with isopropyl alcohol (that is what I used) and gas which may have had ethanol (there is no law that says it must be mentionned here, but that brand ate through my Fastback's tank years ago). My café racer with a fibemglass tank has had gas in the tank for the last year and so far nothing has happened, the gas is still the right color, the paint is pristine and not a single leak. While sealers may all work well (not sure about POR15), I feel preparation and being able to coat everywhere are responsible for 90% of a good fiberglass gas tank, the rest is the product used.

Jean
 
POR and Kream sealers are known to fail with hew fuel. If used in past they must be removed before new tolerant sealer used.
 
Only posted about the Blue Lightening because I'd never heard of it, nor heard it even mentioned on this site, which... when you think about it, seems pretty damned odd as everyone and his brother seems to have done at least SOME searching on this issue over the years. Anyway, the prep, per Jeans comments are 100% correct about the PREP, workmanship, etc. Still reserving thoughts about the perfect material to use. Well, I asked for any test results re the above mentioned product. Here's what I got back. I do NOT know anything about it, so obviously do not recommend it. Read on if curious:

Hi Gary
We have no test results other than satisfied customers for years I have the MSDS sheet but that doesn't tell any results. I've been selling this product for many years, and have not had a complaint yet. We have coated metal, aluminum, plastic and fiberglass tanks for years. My product is endorsed by VMX Mag. the largest Mag. for classic dirt bikes, the pros are using it now, so the gas doesn't permeate through the plastic so their sponsor decals don't fall off anymore, Ethanol has been used in our gas for years, and here in Cal. it is in our gas all the time, the EP10. That's the best I can tell you. I do know that there are many liners out there on the market that don't work, Cream is one.
Thanks Bill

Dirt bikes? Maybe that explains it, as I can't figure to many of us are young enough to still be out there dirt biking... though that WAS fun... err... 'some decades' ago :roll:
 
Gary said:
Only posted about the Blue Lightening because I'd never heard of it, nor heard it even mentioned on this site, which... when you think about it, seems pretty damned odd as everyone and his brother seems to have done at least SOME searching on this issue over the years. Anyway, the prep, per Jeans comments are 100% correct about the PREP, workmanship, etc. Still reserving thoughts about the perfect material to use. Well, I asked for any test results re the above mentioned product. Here's what I got back. I do NOT know anything about it, so obviously do not recommend it. Read on if curious:

Hi Gary
We have no test results other than satisfied customers for years I have the MSDS sheet but that doesn't tell any results. I've been selling this product for many years, and have not had a complaint yet. We have coated metal, aluminum, plastic and fiberglass tanks for years. My product is endorsed by VMX Mag. the largest Mag. for classic dirt bikes, the pros are using it now, so the gas doesn't permeate through the plastic so their sponsor decals don't fall off anymore, Ethanol has been used in our gas for years, and here in Cal. it is in our gas all the time, the EP10. That's the best I can tell you. I do know that there are many liners out there on the market that don't work, Cream is one.
Thanks Bill

Dirt bikes? Maybe that explains it, as I can't figure to many of us are young enough to still be out there dirt biking... though that WAS fun... err... 'some decades' ago :roll:
Click to expand...

If the seller of this is so confidant in the fact his product works as the advertising blurb is likely to suggest, than why on earth doesnt he get it properly tested and supply test results to prospective customers?

However the fact that no one using this forum has ever heard of the product, and he suggests its possible to line a used plastic off-road tank, seems to be saying that its not going to work, and that the seller has little understanding of the technical issues related to sealing a plastic tank effectively.
 
There probably is a tank liner/sealant sold that does work with the ethanol gasoline, but the problem is to be able to differentiate between those that don't work from one that does. This ethanol has thrown a lot of us a curve. Especially those with fiberglass tanks not designed for ethanol.

I live in an area (Florida) that has a lot of boats. No problems reported with the aluminum tanks and ethanol. My BMW K75 has a stock aluminum tank and the one ethanol related problem I've had is the "O" ring that seals the sender at the bottom of the tank let go.
 
Novalac epoxy resin systems sold as tank sealants are 100% resistant to alcohol enhanced fuels in laboratory conditions. However when applied as a slosh coat inside a fuel tank, which very often will have been less than perfectly prepared, and also bearing in mind the effects of vibration on a thin brittle coating, failure is something that is pretty much assured over an extended period of use.

Its worrying that none of those supplying tank sealing products have bothered to carry out any sort of testing related to these sealants, but personally I feel that should an industry standard peel test be applied to these products, that failure would occur in every case! This is something that seems to say rather a lot about the motivation of those supplying what in nearly every case is a repackaged industrial resin of some sort, thats being sold for 400-500% profit!

As stated in another post there are good commercial reasons why its not going to to likely that a big manufacturer would want to get involved in this somewhat shark infested market, and its going to take quite a bit of effort from someone independent of the sharks, possibly working in conjunction with a big manufacturer to come up with a viable and effective long term cure for problem fuel tanks!
 
A very easy way to test a tank sealer before putting it inside a tank (which will be ruined if the sealer fails!) is to coat the inside of something like a glass jar with the sealing product then half fill the jar with surgical spirit (check to see it contains at least 90% ethanol), screw on the lid and wait about a week and see whats happened to the sealer. Carbofiber
Click to expand...

OK I've some Caswells 2 part epoxy left over 7 yr now, so will try coating glass and plastic containers and maybe a piece of fiberglass and put in good dose of EverClear ethanol plus 91 octane gas then wait and see what happens. Boat repair place near by, will see what resins they have on hand and scraps. The boat folks with built in tanks really suffered expensively when they got ethanol in them. Heating of course speeds up ethanol's dissolving powers.
 
Any epoxy that old is well past use by date, so test results are not going to be of that much use. As this thread is obviously of great interest to anyone with an original or improperly made recent GRP tank, then why not carry out some testing using various recently bought sealers, and make the results easily accessible to anyone concerned with this?
 
Folks,
Just to update you, I have used Flamemaster top coat airplane tank sealant. It's not what has previously been referred to as b1/2.

The Flamemaster top coat info states one of it’s uses is to go over the polysulphide sealers as a top coat to protect them from oil fuel and a list of things.

I plan to test this sealant next week once I get some US gas in Maine. I will report the short term & long term results.
Stephen
 
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