Swing Arm Wiggle

Jaxson · Sep 4, 2015

I've looked through other post but dont see this exactly. I've replace Isolastic rubbers front and back on my 1970 Commando. I used the adjustable iso kit procured from Clubman. Both front and back adjusted at .006. I'm getting a fair amount of wiggle in the back wheel and now from the looks of it, the swing arm is looks loose. As I grab the top of the rear wheel, move it back and forth and watch the swing arm connection (where the pin is), I can see play.

Does the big swing arm pin get worn out?

If so, can it be changed w/o removing the primary cover?

Note, during my frame re-build, I did remove the pin. I cleaned, greased and replaced.

L.A.B. · Sep 4, 2015

Jaxson said:
Does the big swing arm pin get worn out?

Play is more often caused by the pin becoming loose in the cradle rather than due to bush/pin wear. This can usually be rectified by fitting the "Kegler" clamp mod.

Dennis C said:

swooshdave said:

Jaxson · Sep 4, 2015

Very interesting swooshdave. I have a couple questions about the Kegler clamp mod.

Do the center bolts simply enter the frame cylinder and press against the pin?

How were you able to remove the swing arm w/ the primary cover on? Dont you have to be able to get tat spoke out the primary side?

About my bush / pin, when cleaning it I found some corrosion and used a wire wheel to clean it. It didnt have that shiny smooth steel surface when I put it back in. Should I try replacing it before going with the Kegler clamp mod?

L.A.B. · Sep 4, 2015

Jaxson said:
Very interesting swooshdave. I have a couple questions about the Kegler clamp mod.

Do the center bolts simply enter the frame cylinder and press against the pin?

It wasn't swooshdave who answered but yes the cradle needs to be drilled so the bolts clamp the pin tightly.

Jaxson said:
About my bush / pin, when cleaning it I found some corrosion and used a wire wheel to clean it. It didnt have that shiny smooth steel surface when I put it back in. Should I try replacing it before going with the Kegler clamp mod?

If the surface was corroded then it would make sense to fit a new one before doing anything else.

ewgoforth · Sep 4, 2015

L.A.B. said:
Jaxson said:

Very interesting swooshdave. I have a couple questions about the Kegler clamp mod.

Do the center bolts simply enter the frame cylinder and press against the pin?

Click to expand...

It wasn't swooshdave who answered but yes the cradle needs to be drilled so the bolts clamp the pin tightly.

Jaxson said:

About my bush / pin, when cleaning it I found some corrosion and used a wire wheel to clean it. It didnt have that shiny smooth steel surface when I put it back in. Should I try replacing it before going with the Kegler clamp mod?

Click to expand...

If the surface was corroded then it would make sense to fit a new one before doing anything else.

I have nuts welded on the cradle with setscrews on them that work similarly. I also shim the swingarm bushes with rear isolastic shims to get the endfloat on the tight end of isolastic clearances. You can feel the end float of the swingarm on the spindle with feeler guages with the orings out.

o0norton0o · Sep 4, 2015

If you do some searching, you can find out all the details of the kegler modification. I have a '70 commando myself, and the swingarm tube design for our early bikes was changed in later models to prevent play in the swingarm tube from effecting the handling of the bike. The kegler modification for our early bikes mimics the upgraded swingarm tube design by pinning the the swing arm shaft in 2 places to eliminate any play in the tube and is really a requirement for early bikes if you want your bike to handle well.

I did my modification with my bike perched on it's centerstand with only the back wheel and shocks removed, so the swingarm would rotate downward out of the way of the cradle's swingarm tube. I did it in just a few hours of work. It improved the bike's handling greatly...

nortonspeed · Sep 4, 2015

ewgoforth said:
I have nuts welded on the cradle with setscrews on them that work similarly.

Welded nuts with setscrews on the cradle spindle tube do not work similarly as the Kegler modification also supports the spindle by firm clamping around the spindle tube to prevent further motion where welded nuts only block the spindle and stretch the spindle tube instead of keeping it tight around the spindle.

1up3down · Sep 4, 2015

After Heinz Kegler left Berliner Corporation on the US east coast he moved here to Albuquerque, New Mexico and worked for Cummings Diesel.

I got to know know Heinz well over a fifteen year period and spent many happy hours hanging out in his machine shop home garage.

He was very much a featherbed frame man, I remember laughing as he would limp around his garage mimicking the "gait" of a Commando in a corner.

Anyway, Heinz recognized the problem that a worn spindle/cradle created and made up a set of his first aluminum swing arm rings and installed them
on my Commando. He said that he had considered welding some nuts on the cradle but felt that if the weld ever failed the security was gone.

I still have that set of rings on my bike, I think only once in all the years have I bothered to loosen the securing nuts and give the bolts a little tighten.

When Heinz died a couple of years ago his wife, Karen, sold the last few set of rings he had made up.

I assume other people now make and sell them.

Heinz offered a number of other Norton improvements including front drum brakes and modifying the Hemmings threaded ISO adjusters to clamp better, which is another story as Heinz also fitted them to my "test mule' as he called my bike.

Just some Norton lore.....

bill · Sep 4, 2015

if you want a set send me a PM.

swooshdave · Sep 5, 2015

bill said:
if you want a set send me a PM.

You can now get them from bill or make them yourself if you have a mill. Guess which I did? :mrgreen:

Read this post carefully.

not-another-spindle-thread-t5978.html

nortonspeed · Sep 6, 2015

Kegler clamps for forum members in Europe: http://www.hollandnortonworks.eu/?lang=EN&page=10

baldy · Sep 8, 2015

Swing arm bushings wear also. It only takes a little wear to make a lot of wiggle at the outside of the wheel.

Jaxson · Sep 18, 2015

Thanks all for your advice. So the new Pin, bushes and Kegler clamp mod are in order. I tried to order the Kegler kit from Holland Norton Works however they us a third part exchange called "transferwise". This company says they take Visa cards but none of mine work. They admitted Americans and Visa hasn't caught on. The suggested I do a money transfer....

YUCK! Can I gt these clamps state side?

Cancel this! Found clamps on McMaster Carr. Looks like all I have to do is drill and tap them for the center hole bolt. 1/2 the price of Holland Norton Works http://www.mcmaster.com/#6436k39/=yzvv1p

nortonspeed · Sep 18, 2015

Jaxson said:
Thanks all for your advice. So the new Pin, bushes and Kegler clamp mod are in order. I tried to order the Kegler kit from Holland Norton Works however they us a third part exchange called "transferwise". This company says they take Visa cards but none of mine work. They admitted Americans and Visa hasn't caught on. The suggested I do a money transfer.... YUCK! Can I gt these clamps state side?

I have used http://www.transferwise.com several times: works a treat at very low costs :!:

ewgoforth · Sep 18, 2015

Jaxson said:
Thanks all for your advice. So the new Pin, bushes and Kegler clamp mod are in order. I tried to order the Kegler kit from Holland Norton Works however they us a third part exchange called "transferwise". This company says they take Visa cards but none of mine work. They admitted Americans and Visa hasn't caught on. The suggested I do a money transfer.... YUCK! Can I gt these clamps state side?

Cancel this! Found clamps on McMaster Carr. Looks like all I have to do is drill and tap them for the center hole bolt. 1/2 the price of Holland Norton Works http://www.mcmaster.com/#6436k39/=yzvv1p

My understanding is that new bushes need to be line bored. A good machine shop can do it. At 100,000+ miles I'm still on my original bushings, 3rd spindle though.

chasbmw · Sep 21, 2015

nortonspeed said:
Jaxson said:

Thanks all for your advice. So the new Pin, bushes and Kegler clamp mod are in order. I tried to order the Kegler kit from Holland Norton Works however they us a third part exchange called "transferwise". This company says they take Visa cards but none of mine work. They admitted Americans and Visa hasn't caught on. The suggested I do a money transfer.... YUCK! Can I gt these clamps state side?

I have used http://www.transferwise.com several times: works a treat at very low costs :!:

Click to expand...

+1 on Transferwise

Swing Arm Wiggle

Jaxson

L.A.B.

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Jaxson

L.A.B.

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ewgoforth

o0norton0o

nortonspeed

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1up3down

bill

swooshdave

nortonspeed

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baldy

Jaxson

nortonspeed

Guest

ewgoforth

chasbmw

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